Tuesday, February 13, 2007

"It was Quite Surreal"

A mass shooting took place at a Salt Lake City shopping mall last night:

A historic mall’s winding hallways became a shooting gallery for a gunman in a trench coat who fired a shotgun randomly at customers, slaying five before being killed by police, authorities and witnesses said.

For hours after Monday evening’s rampage at the Trolley Square shopping mall, police searched stores for scared, shocked shoppers and employees who were hunkered down awaiting a safe escort.

Marie Smith, 23, a Bath & Body Works manager, saw the gunman through the store window. She watched as he raised his gun and fired at a young woman approaching him from behind....

Matt Lund was visiting his wife, Barbara, manager of the Secret Garden children’s clothing store, when he heard the first shots. The couple and three others hid in a storage room for about 40 minutes, isolated but still able to hear the violence.

On the way out, Lund said, he saw a woman’s body face-down at the entrance to Pottery Barn Kids and a man’s body on the floor in the mall’s east-west corridor. “There were a lot of blown out store windows and shot gun shell casings all over the floor,” Lund said. “It was quite surreal.”


This incident goes to show that violence can happen at any place at any time, in the most unexpected of places. People often think that if they live in a "safe neighborhood" nothing bad will happen to them, but this is simply not true. I learned a long time ago in my work that the troubled mind can show itself in the most unexpected of places, and it no longer surprises me that violence like this exists; my only comfort is that it does not happen more often.

Update: Hugh Hewitt and Michelle Malkin have more information on the shooter.

42 Comments:

Blogger TMink said...

I thought it was the start of the domestic attacks by terrorists. Glad I am wrong, and I hope I am just paranoid. But I had that same sick feeling that I had when I saw passenger planes in the sky after 911.

Trey

10:08 AM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

A gunman at the local mall shooting people at random seems like a "terrorist" to me.

10:22 AM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Cham,

Yes, a terrorist of the homegrown variety, but my guess is that he is one lone gunman with killer rage who decided a while ago to commit suicide and to act out his anger on his fellow human beings. I doubt he had much of a true political agenda, probably a madman who did not want to leave this world without letting others know the extent of the turmoil that he felt.

10:53 AM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

I'm not so quick to call this young killer a madman. Afterall, Helen, you are the one that wrote the book on troubled kids that explains the problem. Probably just another kid who is depressed, prone to violence, refuses help, has/had lousy parents and has easy access to guns and ammo. He's only different because he chose mall shoppers as his target, as opposed to the other kids on the street corner.

This story is already fading from the headlines, nothing will change, business as usual.

11:16 AM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Cham,

Most mass murderers tend to have a psychiatric history, the most common Axis I disorder being paranoid schizophrenia or major depression. Some studies (Hempel and Meloy, 1999) show that 40% of the killers were psychotic when they began to kill. Others, you correctly state are not "mad" in the sense that they have personality quirks rather than psychosis. These personality disorders include paranoid, schizoid, narcissistic, and antisocial.

Psychotic murderers are more likely to kill strangers (so far this 18 year old seems to have killed randomly without knowing the suspects but perhaps we will hear more) and to have higher casualty rates than non-psychotic killers. Most mass murderers die at the scene, either by their own hand or at the hands of the police. They also tend to have a "triggering event"--some kind of affront or rejection hours or days before their murders. I imagine that we will hear more about the motives of this killer as the information comes in.

11:33 AM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Sarebear said...

This TERRIFIED/IES me! I wasn't there, but this is where I LIVE. Salt Lake hasn't had this before; I was thinking the other day how lucky we are that we haven't had school shootings, given the prevalence of hunting around here (ie, access to weapons).

12:39 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Clay said...

What terrifies me is that nobody in the mall was equiped to respond.

1:39 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

Clay, it does beg the question about concealed carry doesn't it. I support gun rights, but I do at times get nervous worrying about common carrying.

I don't carry a firearm, but I would trust myself to do so. I think I would trust most people to. But because of my job I see some very, well, interesting people. Many of them I do NOT want to have easy access to a firearm.

So I guess I support bearing arms after a thorough and accurate vetting. What do you think?

Trey

2:11 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

Clay, let's say you were in the mall and you had a gun. You see someone firing a weapon at another person. In a snap decision you would have to determine that the person firing the weapon was not a LEO, and also not someone else protecting their own life or the life of a friend or family member before you could justifiably kill or maim a shooter.

2:24 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Sarebear said...

My husband, until a year ago, was an unarmed security guard near the downtown Salt Lake City area.

One of the main reasons so many security guards are unarmed, is a) the cost to the security firm client, and b) (or farther down the list, who knows), safety.

My husband worked for a famous name security firm, that contracts out its guards to various places. My husband was on a contract at one place, after serving on a security contract during the 2002 SLC Olympics.

When re-negotiating the pay rates and contract $$ every year, sometimes the guard's pay would go down, as the client didn't want to pay as much for security. Sometimes it'd go up a little, when the security company really pushed for, and found reception for, the idea that these guys need more pay. In general though, the clients seem to be skinflints. They want security, but don't want to pay much. THAT would be the main reason many or most security guards don't carry guns; armed security costs the client and the security firm quite a bit more.

On the safety issue, it is also thought that there is a high likelihood a perp could or would possibly get the gun away from the security guard, as well as liability issues if the guard started shooting the wrong people, I guess.

Anyway, that's from my perspective of having a security guard husband in the Salt Lake area, and the chintzy amounts clients have to be squeezed to even spend THAT amount on security . . .

2:50 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

TMink:

But because of my job I see some very, well, interesting people. Many of them I do NOT want to have easy access to a firearm.

What makes you think those people don't have easy access?

You can't keep loons from all access, best to have level-headed people around who can stop them.

3:32 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

It seems to be a common fantasy that if we could somehow limit or prevent the overall access of the public to firearms then we could somehow prevent these kinds of shootings and gun crimes overall. It is a beguiling fantasy, but it doesn't work.
Criminals are able to easily get firearms in England where handguns and semi-automatic firearms are banned and most others are very heavily regulated. England is an island and the government still can't prevent firearms from getting into the hands of criminals.
If gun control can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals then what use is it?

4:02 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

"You can't keep loons from all access, best to have level-headed people around who can stop them."


Like the level-headed off duty officer who the news said "distracted" the shooter until police came. I doubt he distracted him with words.

4:26 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Jeff said...

Cham said...

"Clay, let's say you were in the mall and you had a gun. You see someone firing a weapon at another person. In a snap decision you would have to determine that the person firing the weapon was not a LEO, and also not someone else protecting their own life or the life of a friend or family member before you could justifiably kill or maim a shooter."

Hmmm.....it is the habit of police officers where you live Cham to dress in trench coats, carry a shotgun into the mall and shoot young women in the face outside of Pottery Barn? I would venture not, if so I would move.

If your point is related to police responding to the scene and trying to determine good guy/bad guy your point is noted. Even cops themselves have a hard time determining friendlies when they arrive on scene. Often off-duty officers are shot by responding police in these types of situations. However, the people closest to this event had no trouble figuring out who the bad guy was when he started shooting. After all they did run away.

What this does bring to light is that 1st responders aren't always necessary the police. But you have to be willing to act.....the Tacoma Mall shooter was confronted by a concealed carry holder who couldn't bring himself to pull the trigger.

The fact is that most people pay the police to carry a gun so they don't have to. If you aren't prepared to provide for your own safety this may be good enough for you.

It is interesting to note, that based on reports the off-duty officer is the one who fired the shot that killed the shooter. Even with a reported response time of 15 minutes for the regular police to arrive, the shooter managed to kill 5 people.

Coupled with the fact that at least here in Ohio some malls are posted “No Concealed Carry Allowed” criminals are assured that if you want to inflict maximal damage with a high probability that your victims will be disarmed, go to the mall. Or better yet a school. We call those areas Criminal Protection Zones (CPZs)

For some people this is an acceptable risk, and then they act surprised when it happens. For me it is not…….over a long period of time I can to the realization that the police probably aren’t going to be there to protect me when I need them. The second thing I realized was to ditch the “It can’t happen here mindset”

4:52 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Jeff said...

Oh by the way this incident reminds me of the old adage:

"Better to have (or carry) a gun and not need it, than need a gun and not have it"

Remember that when those who are supposed to protect you want to disarm you.

5:01 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Kirk Parker said...

Jeff,

"Even with a reported response time of 15 minutes for the regular police to arrive, the shooter managed to kill 5 people"

Hmm, it wouldn't occur to me to say someone armed with a shotgun "managaged" to kill 5 people in 15 minutes, unless perhaps the word "only" dropped out accidentally somehow. Like the Tacoma Mall shooter, this person (fortunately!) seemed to lack either skill or determination to kill (or perhaps both.)

And good call on the Criminal Protection Zones. Isn't it some Ohio gun-rights group that came out with the wonderful wallet-sized card that said (paraphrasing):

I'm a conceal-carry permit holder. I guess you mistrust me because ... (long list of things that passing the required background check implies about the law-abiding character of the permit holder). Which of you OTHER customers have passed such a rigorous check? No, I don't think I'll be doing business with you in the future...


Trey,

You're a psychiatrist or psychologist, aren't you? ATF Form 4473, which everyone buying a gun from a licensed dealer must fill out, includes question 12(f): "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (...) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?" This, along with questions regarding felon status, shows that the government is at least making an attempt to keep firearms out of the hands of some of folks you worry about, without descending into lots of presumptive banning that has done so poorly at actual crime reduction in places like England.

8:36 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

"Like the level-headed off duty officer..."

Or a gun carrying citizen. I don't care who kills the bastard.

9:01 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger ronin1516 said...

According to reports, the shooter was a muslim, Bosnian refugee who lived with his mom, and dropped out of school on 2004. I wonder who was at the switch when he dropped pout at age 15 or 16. What was his mom doing? What were teh school authorities doing?
Of course, i bet his mom will now say he was good guy trying to turn his life around, and she will probably sue the Mall and the cops for her loser son'd death.

9:16 PM, February 13, 2007  
Blogger Purple Avenger said...

They don't try that stuff too much down here in FL. Last time I checked the state data (maybe 10 years ago), roughly 1:120 people had a carry permit.

Bad odds at a mall.

2:15 AM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Kirk said...

I don't know, Purple: here in WA we have almost twice the permit-issuance ratio that you do (5.12% vs 2.72% of the adult population) but that didn't stop the Tacoma Mall shooter.

2:59 AM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Pete the Streak said...

Cham: "Clay, let's say you were in the mall and you had a gun. You see someone firing a weapon at another person. In a snap decision you would have to determine that the person firing the weapon was not a LEO, and also not someone else protecting their own life or the life of a friend or family member before you could justifiably kill or maim a shooter."

Cham, I don't see it that way. As a long time concealed carry permit holder who does indeed carry 99% of the time (where allowed),I would expect a period of confusion after the first shooting ("What the hell just happened here?"). No one truly expects to see an event like this, even though we know it can happen. That is one reason why we carry in the first place. However, while I wouldn't be able to help the first victim, seeing the shooter was a trench-coated guy with a now visible shotgun, I would immediately realize something was horribly wrong. At that point, I'd unholster discreetly and try to get into a position of safe attack should the shooter raise the gun again. If he does so, and I have a clean line of fire with a background clear of innocents, I hope I'd be able to put the guy down before he shoots again.

Responsible citizens that carry are NOT the police. Even had I seen the guy before he shot the first victim, trench coat and all, I wouldn't simply open fire. If he looked THAT strangely, though, I'd sure keep an eye on him. A major part of self defense is being aware of your surroundings, even where trouble is not especially likely. It's possible the guy can shoot a second victim before I'm comfortable enough with my position to fire, although at that point this guy has verified to me what he's up to.

Best case scenario? I keep him from killing victims 3, 4 and 5. This is, of course, of no value to victims 1 and 2, but I'm not the police, and won't act like I am. I would also fully expect that after I had to shoot the guy and everything was over, I'd be an emotional wreck. Shooting someone doesn't turn me on in the least, but seeing an innocent killed, with more certainly on the way, turns me on even less.

This is simply my take on situations like this tragedy.

8:57 AM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

Olig wrote: "What makes you think those people don't have easy access (to guns)?"

Well, excellent point! I was showing some naivete there wasn't I? Glad to know I still have some!

Trey

9:42 AM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

Olig wrote: "What makes you think those people don't have easy access (to guns)?"

Well, excellent point! I was showing some naivete there wasn't I? Glad to know I still have some!

Trey

9:42 AM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Jeff said...

Kirk said...

I don't know, Purple: here in WA we have almost twice the permit-issuance ratio that you do (5.12% vs 2.72% of the adult population) but that didn't stop the Tacoma Mall shooter.


Uhhh....the Tacoma Mall shooter was confronted by a CCW holder who lacked the will to even shoot. Instead he told him (after the shooter had already started shooting people) "Young man, you need to put that gun down" At which point the shooter shot him instead. What he should have down was to start shooting from the pelvis up to the head until the shooter was down and hopefully dead. For those interested, you start at the pelvis to stop his mobility, and work your way up the torso. If he has a bullet proof vest you will make him might uncomfortable until you reach the head.

That is what he should have done, but he said he couldn't do it because the shooter was just a kid.

10:42 AM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Kirk said...

Jeff,

Just to clarify, what I meant by "stop the Tacoma Mall shooter" was that the knowledge that WA has a higher-than average number of CCW holders (if indeed he even knew that) didn't stop the shooter from planning any carrying out his atrocity. And it's arguable that Dan McKown's intervention, though personally quite costly (and very, very ill-advised, as you point out) nevertheless probably saved others by means of occupying the shooter for some time.

I would take issue with your blanket recommendation of how to proceed, however; in a (presumably) crowded mall scenario, starting at the pelvis and working up might pose too great a risk to the bystanders.

11:27 AM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Jeff said...

Kirk,

I would venture to guess, and maybe Dr. Helen can confirm, that for this type of shooter, probably wants a confrontation with the police ala, suicide by cop.

So while the average criminal might pause to reconsider given the chance his potential victim might be armed, this type of psychotic individual doesn't care. Might even play into the fantasy of "going out in a blaze of glory"

What this situation shows is that a quick decisive armed response, either by off-duty, on-duty, or the responsible armed citizen can limit the number of overall casualties.

As for my recommendation of pelvis to head shooting, I didn't think that up on my own, it is a tactic that evolved out the famous "Hollywood Shootout" where 2 armed bank robbers wearing bullet proof vests can be seen walking down the street taking numerous ineffective hits to center of mass.

One committed suicide, and the other was shot in the legs/feet until (he was standing on the other side of a car he was using as a shield until a SWAT member proned out and starting shooting as his feet) he went down and was shot in the head.

The pelvic area is a bigger target than the feet.

The tactic is designed to stop the mobility of the attacker, and shoot him until he stops.

As for risk to the bystanders, I think a armed attacker who can move, run, and shoot is more of a danger than one lying on the floor.

Especially since the next move is to put rounds into his head.

12:16 PM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Kirk Parker said...

Jeff,

I didn't say it was never appropriate to follow your recommended protocol, I only meant (by the use of the phrase "blanket recommendation") to object to the notion that it should be always followed. In fact, what is needed is a flexible approach, evaluating and changing your response as appropriate.

As far as the risk to bystanders goes, I do that it's prudent for the non-sworn-officer (and certainly moral even for them!) to have a Hypocratic-style mindset and first of all, do no harm. This is especially important for the non-officer as he will not have any kind of sovereign immunity if something does go wrong. Perhaps it shouldn't be this way, but my willingness to spend the rest of my life in court, and all my resources on lawyers, as a result of attempting to defend someone does go down a bit when that defendee isn't a family member or close personal friend.

1:43 PM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Jeff,

This type of shooter has usually decided to commit suicide, either by the police or his own hand; he is unlike the average criminal in that his goal is simply to kill as many people as possible.

My guess is that for some of these shooters, they will do what is necessary to kill as many people as possible. Remember that their script is that people will be frightened and afraid and will not fight back. Only the police will do that and they hope they can take out others before the police get to them. However, even though they may be psychotic, they are not stupid. They purposely choose places where there is little chance they will encounter immmediate resistance. Who at the mall thinks about someone opening fire? Or at a school?

These mass murderers choose places that allow them open access to people where no guns or weapons will be likely to stop them, at least for a while. And yes, they expect to go out in a blaze of glory and often do, with their story splashed all over headline news. What the media's focus on the killer's story does is encourage the next mentally unstable mind to decide to get a little recognition or act out their fury against Americans, schools or whoever they decide deserve the brunt of their dissatisfaction.

1:44 PM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Jeff said...

Kirk,

I agree my assessment of the Tacoma shooting was not meant to be a blanket recommendation, but he mindset still stands....engage as quickly as possible, rather than wait for the victims to pile up.

As for your comment:

"Perhaps it shouldn't be this way, but my willingness to spend the rest of my life in court, and all my resources on lawyers, as a result of attempting to defend someone does go down a bit when that defendee isn't a family member or close personal friend."

I agree, 'tis a sad state of affairs for the CCW citizen or non-sworn. Even the average cop, to have your decisions second guessed at leisure by lawyers and the court system over a period of weeks/months can be a deterrent to decisive action. One that I suspect gets officers killed due to indecision. Try Googling for GA deputy Kyle Dinkheller video (WARNING this video is graphic and shows the drawn out murder in all its attendant horror) and you will see an officer who, after commanding a suspect to "Drop the weapon" is murdered. The Deputy had been the subject of a couple of "excessive force" inquiries, who knows if his indecision cost him his life.

This is why in many states (unfortunately not yet in Ohio)are passing "Castle Doctrine" laws which allow citizens who are legally going about their business to meet force with force up to and including deadly force. Previously most States have the "duty to retreat" which states you must run away if you have the chance.

Another important provision is immunity from civil prosecution. Many defensive shootings while not criminally prosecuted find their way into the civil courts. Which can ruin your life as much as jail time. The new laws state the IF the defensive shooting is not prosecuted or is justified, the criminal or his family cannot sue.

I don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a tactics or legality of CCW involved shootings (perhaps it is too late ) but will let it return to Dr. Helen's original point of her discussion.

2:56 PM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger Matthias said...

I was at Trolley Square just a few hours before the shooting (more here) and it certainly is a bit of a shock for a city that still considers itself to be kind of a small town.

I'm curious for Dr. Helen's thoughts on this... in such a circumstance as this, is it better to try and suppress interest in Talovic (as it fulfills part of the narcissistic fantasy that these kinds of killers feed on) and focus instead on the heroes like off duty police officer, Ken Hammond? Or should we strive to understand Talovic and try to focus on identifying this type of person and trying to identify deterrents to this kind of behavior?

I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a deterrent for those who commit such crimes unless we were to somehow artificially suppress the media frenzy that will inevitably proceed from them. These kinds of killers are clearly intent on some level of suicide (be it self-inflicted or "blaze of glory") and it seems that the extent to which they succeed depends almost entirely on how quickly someone with a gun can stop them.

As a side note, I visited the indoor shooting range near my house on Tuesday... the interest in their concealed carry program has skyrocketed.

7:08 PM, February 14, 2007  
Blogger look said...

情趣用品,
性感睡衣,
免費視訊聊天,
視訊交友網,
美姬圖影,
情境坊歡愉用品,
花美姬情趣用品,
成人圖片,
臺灣情色網,
嘟嘟情人色網,
色情網站,
情境坊歡愉用品,
徵信,
徵信公司,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信,
抓姦,
徵信,
外遇,
徵信,
徵信社,
徵信社,
抓姦,
徵信社,
徵信社,
徵信社,
,
,
整型,
視訊聊天,
視訊交友,
AV女優,
色情,
A片,
A片,
情趣用品,
情色,
A片,
色情影片,
情趣用品,
A片,
AV女優,
視訊聊天室,
聊天,
情趣用品,
情惑用品性易購,
情侶歡愉用品,
A片,
情趣,
情惑用品性易購,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,
寄情築園小遊戲,
aio交友愛情館,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
情趣用品,
徵信社,
情趣用品,
A片,
美女視訊,
色情A片,
AV女優,
A片,
辣妹視訊,
自慰套,
情侶歡愉用品,

6:15 AM, March 15, 2009  
Blogger selina said...

福~
「朵
語‧,最一件事,就。好,你西.........................................................................................................................................................................................

8:50 AM, March 16, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

本土成人貼圖站大台灣情色網台灣男人幫論壇A圖網嘟嘟成人電影網火辣春夢貼圖網情色貼圖俱樂部台灣成人電影絲襪美腿樂園18美女貼圖區柔情聊天網707網愛聊天室聯盟台北69色情貼圖區38女孩情色網台灣映像館波波成人情色網站美女成人貼圖區無碼貼圖力量色妹妹性愛貼圖區日本女優貼圖網日本美少女貼圖區亞洲風暴情色貼圖網哈啦聊天室美少女自拍貼圖辣妹成人情色網台北女孩情色網辣手貼圖情色網AV無碼女優影片男女情色寫真貼圖a片天使俱樂部萍水相逢遊戲區平水相逢遊戲區免費視訊交友90739免費視訊聊天辣妹視訊 - 影音聊天網080視訊聊天室日本美女肛交美女工廠貼圖區百分百貼圖區亞洲成人電影情色網台灣本土自拍貼圖網麻辣貼圖情色網好色客成人圖片貼圖區711成人AV貼圖區台灣美女貼圖區筱萱成人論壇咪咪情色貼圖區momokoko同學會視訊kk272視訊情色文學小站成人情色貼圖區嘟嘟成人網嘟嘟情人色網 - 貼圖區免費色情a片下載台灣情色論壇成人影片分享免費視訊聊天區微風 成人 論壇kiss文學區taiwankiss文學區

8:29 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger mmbox said...

2008真情寫真aa片免費看捷克論壇微風論壇大眾論壇plus論壇080視訊聊天室情色視訊交友90739美女交友-成人聊天室色情小說做愛成人圖片區豆豆色情聊天室080豆豆聊天室 小辣妹影音交友網台中情人聊天室桃園星願聊天室高雄網友聊天室新中台灣聊天室中部網友聊天室嘉義之光聊天室基隆海岸聊天室中壢網友聊天室南台灣聊天室南部聊坊聊天室台南不夜城聊天室南部網友聊天室屏東網友聊天室台南網友聊天室屏東聊坊聊天室雲林網友聊天室大學生BBS聊天室網路學院聊天室屏東夜語聊天室孤男寡女聊天室一網情深聊天室心靈饗宴聊天室流星花園聊天室食色男女色情聊天室真愛宣言交友聊天室情人皇朝聊天室上班族成人聊天室上班族f1影音視訊聊天室哈雷視訊聊天室080影音視訊聊天室38不夜城聊天室援交聊天室080080哈啦聊天室台北已婚聊天室已婚廣場聊天室 夢幻家族聊天室摸摸扣扣同學會聊天室520情色聊天室QQ成人交友聊天室免費視訊網愛聊天室愛情公寓免費聊天室拉子性愛聊天室柔情網友聊天室哈啦影音交友網哈啦影音視訊聊天室櫻井莉亞三點全露寫真集123上班族聊天室尋夢園上班族聊天室成人聊天室上班族080上班族聊天室6k聊天室粉紅豆豆聊天室080豆豆聊天網新豆豆聊天室080聊天室免費音樂試聽流行音樂試聽免費aa片試看免費a長片線上看色情貼影片免費a長片

8:30 AM, March 22, 2009  
Blogger nini said...

85cc免費影城 愛情公寓正妹牆川藏第一美女 成人影片 情色交友網 美女視訊 美女視訊 視訊情人高雄網 JP成人影城 383成人影城 aa片免費a片下載 a片線上看aa片免費看 ※a片線上試看※sex520免費影片※ aa片免費看 BT成人論壇 金瓶影片交流區 自拍美女聊天室 aa片免費a片下載 SEX520免費影片 免費a片 日本美女寫真集 sex520aa免費影片 sex520aa免費影片 BT成人網 Hotsee免費視訊交友 百分百貼影片區 SEX520免費影片 免費視訊聊天室 情人視訊高雄網 星光情色討論版 正妹牆 383成人影城 線上85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 85cc免費影城 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 免費視訊聊天室 85cc免費影片 85cc免費影片 080苗栗人聊天室 080苗栗人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 080中部人聊天室 免費a片下載 免費a片 AA片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 aa片免費看 日本av女優影片 av女優 av女優無碼影城 av女優 av女優 百分百成人圖片 百分百成人圖片 視訊情人高雄網 電話交友 影音電話交友 絕色影城 絕色影城 夜未眠成人影城 夜未眠成人影城 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 色咪咪影片網 免費色咪咪貼影片 免費色咪咪貼影片 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 色情遊戲 影音視訊交友網 視訊交友網 080視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊聊天室 成人影音視訊聊天室 ut影音視訊聊天室 ※免費視訊聊天室※ 視訊ukiss聊天室視訊ukiss聊天室 視訊交友90739 視訊交友90739 情人視訊網 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 168視訊美女 視訊美女館 視訊美女館 免費視訊美女網 小高聊天室 小高聊天室 aio交友聊天室 aio交友聊天室 交友聊天室 交友聊天室 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 線上a片 免費線上a片 免費線上a片 嘟嘟成人網站 成人漫畫 情色文學 嘟嘟成人網 成人貼圖區 情色文學成人小說 微風成人區 情色貼圖區 免費視訊聊天 免費成人圖片區 愛情公寓 愛情公寓聊天室 寄情築園小遊戲 免費aa片線上看 aa片免費看 情色SXE聊天室 SEX情色遊戲 色情A片 免費下載 av女優 俱樂部 情色論壇 辣妹視訊 情色貼圖網 免費色情 聊天室 情人視訊聊天室 免費a片成人影城 免費a片-aa片免費看 0204貼圖區 SEX情色 交友聊天-線上免費 女優天堂 成人交友網 成人情色貼圖區 18禁 -女優王國 080視訊美女聊天室 080視訊聊天室 視訊交友90739 免費a片 aio 視訊交友網 成人影城-免費a片※免費視訊聊天※85cc免費影片日本線上免費a片 免費色咪咪影片免費色咪咪影片aaa片免費看影片aaa片免費看成人影城免費色咪咪影片

3:52 PM, April 05, 2009  
Blogger 123456 said...

广州托盘复合托盘食品托盘天津木托盘胶合板托盘蜂窝纸托盘塑木托盘熏蒸木托盘木制托盘广东塑料托盘钢托盘钢制托盘栈板塑料栈板木栈板垫仓板托盘包装求购托盘天津托盘温州托盘山东托盘北京托盘上海木托盘塑胶托盘卡板纸卡板塑料卡板手推车推车机场手推车好孩子手推车液压手推车超市手推车医用手推车康贝手推车不锈钢手推车平板车电动平板车老虎车静音手推车平板手推车小推车模具架置物架堆垛架巧固架整理架物料整理架挂板架整理柜零件柜零件整理柜文件整理柜仓储笼仓库笼料箱塑料箱钢制料箱货箱整理箱塑料整理箱周转箱塑料周转箱防静电周转箱求购周转箱物流箱物料盒零件盒塑料零件盒卡板箱周转筐塑料周转筐周转箩登高车物流台车台车密集架档案密集架文件柜办公文件柜北京文件柜广州文件柜上海文件柜南京文件柜深圳文件柜钢制文件柜铁皮文件柜档案柜文件柜厂底图柜档案柜鞋柜储物柜更衣柜防火防磁柜防磁柜防火防磁文件柜图书架资料柜工具柜

5:28 AM, April 13, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

免費視訊聊天 ut聊天室辣妹視訊UT影音視訊聊天室 吉澤明步QQ美女視訊秀 85cc免費影片aa影片下載城sex免費成人影片aaa片免費看短片美女視訊 sex383線上娛樂場av969 免費短片日本免費視訊aa影片下載城視訊網愛聊天室影音視訊交友 咆哮小老鼠分享論壇sex520免費影片aa免費影片下載城aio辣妺視訊 aio辣妹交友愛情館 jp成人影片aio交友愛情館馬子免費影片免費線上a片18成人85cc影城0204movie免費色咪咪視訊網pc交友s383視訊玩美女人34c高雄視訊聊天jp成人免費視訊辣妹 kk777視訊俱樂部xxxpandalive173影音視訊聊天室 sex520-卡通影片成人免費視訊 完美女人13060 免費視訊聊天sexy girl video movie辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室UT視訊美女交友視訊情色網百事無碼a片dvd線上aa片免費看18禁成人網ut聊天室kk俱樂部視訊激情網愛聊天 情人小魔女自拍卡通aa片免費看夜未眠成人影城aio性愛dvd辣妹影片直播拓網視訊交友視訊聊天室ggoo168論壇視訊辣妹love104影音live秀 美女show-live視訊情色yam交友辣妹妹影音視訊聊天室s383情色大網咖視訊aaa俱樂部台灣情色網無碼avdvdsexy diamond sex888入口Show-live視訊聊天室

5:26 AM, April 14, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

免費 a 片aaaaa片俱樂部影片aaaaa片俱樂部dodo豆豆聊天室sex520網路自拍美女聊天室天堂免費線上avdvd援交av080影片aa影片下載城aaa片免費看短片成人圖片區18成人avooogo2av免費影片sexdiy影城免費線上成人影片bonbonsex0951影片下載日本av女優sex888免費看影片免費視訊78論壇辣妹有約辣妹no31314視訊dudu sex免費影片avdvd情色影片免費色咪咪影片網av080免費試看日本美女寫真集辣妹脫衣麻將視訊聊天室性福免費影片分享日本美女寫真集,kk視訊aio交友愛情館免費成人美女視訊bt論壇色情自拍免費a片卡通tw 18 net卡通18美少女圖色情漫畫777美女小護士免費 aa 片試看百分百成人情色圖片a片免費觀賞sexy girls get fuckedsexy girl video movie情色文學成人小說sex888免費看eyny 伊莉論壇sexdiy影城自拍情色0204movie免費影片aio免費aa片試看s383情色大網咖sexy girl video movie草莓牛奶AV論壇台灣論壇18禁遊戲區環球辣妹聊天室 90691拓網aio交友愛情館拓網學生族視訊777美女 sex888影片分享區hi5 tv免費影片aa的滿18歲卡通影片sex383線上娛樂場sexdiy影城免費a片線上觀看真人美女辣妹鋼管脫衣秀比基尼辣妹一夜情視訊aio交友愛情館

5:26 AM, April 14, 2009  
Blogger 天天看正妹 said...

小魔女免費影城免費看 aa的滿18歲影片sex383線上娛樂場kk777視訊俱樂部aa的滿18歲影片85cc免費影片a片免費看A片-sex520視訊聊天室v6 0plus論壇sex520免費影片avdvd-情色網qq美美色網ut13077視訊聊天A片-無碼援交東京熱一本道aaa免費看影片免費視訊聊天室微風成人免費視訊聊天 ut聊天室av1688影音視訊天堂免費 a 片85cc免費影城亞洲禁果影城微風成人av論壇sex520免費影片JP成人網免費成人視訊aaa影片下載城免費a片 ut交友成人視訊85cc成人影城免費A片aa的滿18歲影片小魔女免費影片85cc免費影片aaa片免費看短片aa影片下載城aaaaa片俱樂部影片aaaaa片俱樂部aa的滿18歲影片小魔女免費影片台灣論壇免費影片後宮0204movie免費影片免費卡通影片線上觀看線上免費a片觀看85cc免費影片免費A片aa影片下載城ut聊天室辣妹視訊UT影音視訊聊天室 日本免費視訊aaaa 片俱樂部aaaa片免費看影片免費視訊78論壇情色偷拍免費A片免費aaaaa片俱樂部影片aa影片下載城色漫畫帝國av俱樂部aaaa彩虹頻道免費影片 杜蕾斯成人免費卡通影片線上觀看85cc免費影片線上觀賞免費線上歐美A片觀看免費a片卡通aaa的滿18歲卡通影片sex520免費影片免費 a 片

5:26 AM, April 14, 2009  
Blogger 徵信 said...

外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇


外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇外遇
外遇

外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 ,
外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇外遇 外遇外遇 外遇 外遇

外遇 外遇

外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿劈腿喜帖囍帖卡片外遇外遇 外遇 外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇 外遇剖析 外遇調查 外遇案例 外遇諮詢 偷情 第三者外遇話題 外遇發洩 感情挽回 徵信社 外遇心態 外遇 通姦 通姦罪 外遇徵信社徵信社外遇 外遇 抓姦徵信協會徵信公司 包二奶 徵信社 徵信 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信 徵信 婚姻 婚前徵信 前科 個人資料 外遇 第三者 徵信社 偵探社 抓姦 偵探社 偵探社婚 偵探社 偵探社偵探家事服務家事服務家電維修家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務持久持久持久持久持久持久持久離婚網頁設計徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社外遇離婚協議書劈腿持久持久持久持久持久劈腿剖析徵信徵信社外遇外遇外遇外遇徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信公會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 徵信協會 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿 劈腿

10:22 PM, April 20, 2009  
Blogger 1314 said...

視訊做愛視訊美女無碼A片情色影劇kyo成人動漫tt1069同志交友網ut同志交友網微風成人論壇6k聊天室日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞UT視訊美女交友..........................

10:28 PM, May 19, 2009  
Blogger 1122 said...

倉井空aaa片俱樂部一劍浣春秋kyo成人動漫avav片av女優travianavastavdvdav美女go2av38ga免費aa片avhello成人電影院javatt1069同志交友網av1688影音娛樂網av博物館一葉情貼圖片區 av127免費av18禁影片go2av免費影av直播室av成人網avonline免費a片av最前線日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞免費ava片線上看ut同志交友網一葉晴貼影片區 av127

2:13 AM, June 08, 2009  

Post a Comment

<< Home