Thursday, June 28, 2007

Hi all, it seems that the troll that none of us has missed over the past few weeks is back making comments about my work etc. in an attempt to shut me up for fear of losing my livelihood. The problem is, this tactic only makes me dig in my heels harder and shout even louder. My rights as a citizen and my committment to the first amendment (and the second) are more important to me than my job anyway so this tactic is not a good one to take here. I don't like to delete comments, but nobody has a right to comment on someone else's blog -- these anonymous cowards can always start their own blogs if they want, and see if they can attract any readers of their own. (Good luck with that, guys). So if you see trolling, just ignore it. Don't feed the trolls!

75 Comments:

Blogger TMink said...

Good advice. Why is good advice so hard to take sometimes! I am a guilty party when it comes to feeding the trolls, and I am going to try to show real self-restraint. I guess I am just easily baited in this area.

Trey

11:14 AM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Danny said...

Helen, I think YOU SHOULD DELETE the comments made by this particular troll!!! Troll pollute the atmosphere,and essentially pollute the lake, as it were. Plus, unless the troll is punished, he/she will continue to misbehave.
So, I'd ask that you get aggressive with this sad sack,and delete everything he/she posts.

12:01 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Peregrine John said...

I'm with Trey and danny (as usual): Cry Havoc!

12:09 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger paul a'barge said...

Delete the troll's comments.

12:27 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Feed the troll. Strychnine...

1:17 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why is it that the lefty's first reaction to disagreement is to try to get the disagreer fired?

Seems kinda fascistic, doesn't it?

2:38 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Donna said...

I'm a firm believer in the first amendment. The first amendment protects speech that we don't like--speech that is neither nice, nor is it politically correct. If we all want the ability to speak freely, then we have to allow the trolls their public forum. Also inherent in this argument is the freedom of thought, which means we can all think the trolls are morons and need not respond. We don't need to feed the trolls strychnine, we can allow for their speech to reflect their own inadequacies.

Helen: You are a much bigger person for allowing this troll the space to voice an opinion. It just goes to show who has the personal fortitude to stand up, be heard, and identified and who is going to hide behind the alias of anonymous.

2:54 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Sorry - I grew up under a rock.

Seriously, the vehemence and tenacity of some commenters really amazes me. Why waste the time and effort to have a vicious argument with somebody you don't even know, probably never will, and whose opinion has no effect on your life? It's like getting off the bus at a randomly-chosen stop and picking a fight with the first pedestrian you meet. Would a healthy person do that?

3:18 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Mercurior said...

sometimes i think these people wouldnt know sense if it came up and but them on the ass (arse for the uks')

well even some of us.. shall we say people who disagree passionatly against each other, we would work together, for you are sign of sanity in this increasing insane world.

you say it how it is. i will try not to feed the trolls. hell you can always send them to me.. and my blog..

3:18 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen
RE: Trolls!

I hate those guys. -- Indiana Jones

I think they belong in a 'dungeon'. That way, people who want to see a freak-show can go there and see how ugly they can REALLY get.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It's okay to be ugly...but aren't you [trolls] overdoing it?]

P.S. Move to ExpressionEngine....

4:05 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Adrian said...

I once tried to run a message board on the absolute right to freedom of speech. Even then, I had to delete advertisements for cialis. I think a blog really is for Helen to sound off, not really for us to comment, per se. Helen's blog is almost like a message board in the comment section, but it really is her blog both in fact but also in spirit, so I wouldn't blame her for turning the comment section off altogether if she was just tired of the BS. If it were me, I would totally try to keep the message board aspect alive -- it is very difficult to get that going. And, to keep a good forum, it usually takes some good moderation that gets rid of the really bad trolls but that keeps the half decent trolls around to keep it interesting.

Unfortunately, I don't have that problem -- my blog isn't nearly so popular! *pout*

4:07 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen
RE: On Further Thought...

....has anyone done a psychological 'profile' study on the mentality of trolls?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Know your enemy.... -- Sun Tzu]

4:38 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Helen,

I vote (if we're voting here) that you:

1) delete the tolls' comments,
2) publish the troll's IP address.

Rusty

4:48 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous David said...

I personally consider someone's private blog an extension of their home, and I consider commenting a privilege, not a First Amendment Right. If someone comes into my home and gets rude and snotty with me, they get the boot. Hope the door misses their ass on the way out. If Helen were to dislike my comments, she has every right to delete and ban me, and I can whine about free speech all I want to, but that won't change the fact that I've been shown the door and pushed through it. Constitutional rights don't apply here, just the whim of the blog's proprieter. I just wish people would be more civilized and not make comments online that they wouldn't dare make to a person's face.

And the really obnoxious trolls should be deleted and banned. Nothing else shuts them up faster.

4:49 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

Actually, people have the ability or "right" to comment on any blog in any way. All you have to do is punch a few keys on a keyboard and hit enter, et viola, a comment. The blogger also has the ability to delete comments or turn on their comment moderation. Blogspot is owned and operated by Google (I think) so it is Google that is the owner and controller of all blogspot blogs. Unless some Internet oversight government is formed and enacts some laws, then people can pretty much do whatever they wish.

5:02 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen
RE: Yikes!

"Good work! Thanks to pressure from our online community and many others, we've learned that the Vice President's office "will not pursue the argument that he is separate from the executive branch."" -- Cham

If Cham is correct—Google owns BlogSpot—and you value the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights....

....you'll move to ANOTHER BSP IMMEDIATELY!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Google HATES 'democracies'. That's why they're 'in bed' with the Communist Chinese....snuffing out freedom of expression in China, one blogger at a time.]

5:10 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen
RE: ERRATA

The quote should have read....

"Blogspot is owned and operated by Google (I think) so it is Google that is the owner and controller of all blogspot blogs." -- Cham

Sorry about that, a misstep on the computer's copy and paste function.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[When you want a really bad foul-up, get a computer involved.]

5:11 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

Boy, do I LIKE Rusty's idea.

6:36 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger # 56 said...

Bugs, who is healthy? I think you just block selected IP's, and be done with him/them.

7:58 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Been pondering the whole First Amendment thing in the context of this and other blogs.

I'll be obtuse and suggest that the First Amendment says Congress can't censor trolls. It does not say that bloggers can't censor trolls.

Free speech is a right - not an free pass to abuse your fellow citizens.

8:07 PM, June 28, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do these trolls come from Media Matters? They seem sort of similar from blog to blog.

9:11 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

I get the idea that it is the trolls who are looking to prevent free speech.

Trey

11:52 PM, June 28, 2007  
Blogger Dana said...

trolls have their free speech in tact. They can start their own blogs. The can link here and say what they please. Even anonymously.

I don't know. I view myself as the absolute dictator of my corner of the internet. The fact that I only delete spam and cursing is a result of my great benevolence.

1:57 AM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Mercurior said...

this is why i have an external comment system, where i can block certain ip addresses. gives me extra controls..

3:46 AM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

Cham, we don't need another gov't oversight committee. Damn sure don't need any laws governing the internet. The "fairness doctrine" would find it's way in, I'm sure.

I like rusty's idea, and also what mercurior does, block certain ip's.

Google, by the way, is getting way too big for its britches already.

6:33 AM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:29 AM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:43 AM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:50 AM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm putting a call through to the mayor this morning to voice my concern, and exercising my amendment rights.

7:54 AM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Anonymous 7:54:

Good luck with that, I'm sure our mayor has better things to do than take your calls.

7:59 AM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Maybe related: this article on CNN's website.

10:25 AM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous dweeb said...

I'll be obtuse and suggest that the First Amendment says Congress can't censor trolls. It does not say that bloggers can't censor trolls.

But the very nature of blogging makes it a statement in favor of the open marketplace of ideas, and free speech, not as a LEGAL, but as a MORAL principle. As such, the blogger who censors may not be breaking any laws, but they are still a hypocrit.

12:28 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Momzilla said...

I disagree, Dweeb. For one thing, abuse, threats and slander have never been considered "protected free speech."

12:48 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

But the very nature of blogging makes it a statement in favor of the open marketplace of ideas...

A blog is simply one shop in the marketplace. The merchant can display whatever products she chooses, and no one can force her to offer a product she judges inferior. If you don't like her product, shop somewhere else. Or open your own store. The marketplace doesn't charge rent.

I hate thinking in metaphors.

1:02 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous lpdbw said...

dweeb: Bullshit.

Any moral principle which states I must absorb lunatic ravings and attacks and leave them on display is a broken principle.

Catch me censoring polite, logical, well-thought arguments? Then you can call me a hypocrite (or even a hypocrit, but that's over the top.)

Censoring trolls is just like cleaning up graffiti. Nothing more.

1:11 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Ripper said...

We need a whole new way to deal with trolls. Registration, a valid email and a Captcha isn't enough. I've seen too many good online communities flooded with Trolls.

How about a registration system that demands you pay $0.25 via Paypal to get a screen name? Donate the money from the normal people to the Red Cross. Donate the money from the trolls to the OJ Simpson Legal Defense Fund.

Thank you for your work, Dr. H. I will be hitting you up for advice on Ask Dr. H, and I have a doozey. Ethical, emotional and financial questions all rolled up in one big ugly ball.

1:17 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

momzilla:

Yes, but abuse, threats, and slander are to some degree in the eye of the beholder. While undoubtedly there are those who post what most of us would consider abuse, please keep in mind that some of us also feel that Helen's remarks at times constitute abuse and slander. Hence, the sense of hypocrisy.

1:28 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Anonymous
RE: In Your Eyes

"Yes, but abuse, threats, and slander are to some degree in the eye of the beholder." -- Anonymous

Abuse, yes.

Case in point, the Muslims think cartoons or satire about Islam is 'abuse'.

More rational people, who are not so thin-skinned think otherwise. Especially Christians who Allen Forkum of Forkem & Cox don't get overly upset, i.e., threaten violence, if they poke fun at our beliefs.

Threats and slander, no. They are in the eyes of the Law.

Also, for all here, 'slander' is spoken. Printed, as in hard-copy or on the internet is 'libel'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Laugh at yourself. Join the rest of the crowd.]

1:53 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Anonymous 1:28:

What you really mean is that you disagree with my politics. That is not the same as "slander and abuse." You are free to write up your feelings at your own blog but are not welcome to use my blog to do so.

1:58 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

anon@1:28 - Responding to perceived abuse and slander with more abuse and slander (i.e., trolling) is doubly hypocritical.

1:59 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: ERRATA

Ack! Bad grammar. Confusing sentence structure. The above should read...

Especially Christians who Allen Forkum, of Cox & Forkum, likes satirize. They, by and large, do not stage riotous demonstrations, threatening violence and/or calling for his death.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[It sounds like English, but I can't understand a word you're saying.]

2:00 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

ripper - I've offered a number of creative solutions to the troll infestations, but nobody seems interested in them.

Jeez, it's not like I suggested cannibalism or anything.

Well, time for lunch...

2:02 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: All
RE: [OT] Speaking of the English Language....

....I just stumbled on this comment....

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary! -- James D. Nicoll

...and I just had to share it.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Why are Chinese fortune cookies written in English?]

2:03 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger P. Rich said...

Hey. Even trolls have a place in the world - in dark caverns, beneath some distant mountain, eating rocks.

On a less serious note, as a practical matter it is much easier to block a particular source than waste time reading its every questionable [by definition] post. Your time, I would think Dr. Helen, can be better spent otherwise.

2:04 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

To all,

Like I have said before, part of the problem is with using Blogger. I cannot just block one IP address. I can moderate comments so that everyone has to register which is unfair to many or allow everyone on. There is no inbetween, unfortunately.

2:15 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: Dr. Helen
RE: Blog Management

"Like I have said before, part of the problem is with using Blogger. I cannot just block one IP address." -- Dr. Helen

You can with ExpressionEngine.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Good user interface is the hobgoblin of programming.]

2:55 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: P. Rich
RE: Trolls

"Even trolls have a place in the world - in dark caverns, beneath some distant mountain, eating rocks. " -- P. Rich

That's why I say put them in a 'dungeon'. I'm working on building such a function in my blog.

Phase I - A special button that only the blogmeister sees. Push it and the comment is moved to the dungeon area of the blog, with comment where it has been moved and a link to said comment for those who wish to visit the 'freak-show'.

Phase II - All comments from the troll automatically are moved TO the dungeon.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. -- Edmund Burke]

P.S. According to Tolkien, trolls eat people. In this venue, they eat the bloggers.

3:00 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

bugs 1:02

I know what you mean about thinking in metaphors. I usually do my best thinking in the morning reading room.

3:57 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Helen said: "What you really mean is that you disagree with my politics. That is not the same as 'slander and abuse.'"

Well, I certainly do disagree and you're right, they are not the same. Which is why I said that I recognize some of the abuse that's posted here. But I'm not sure you really see the difference. I think YOU see disagreement as abusive and slanderous and certainly unwelcome.

FYI - I disagree with much of Glenn's politics as well, but he is not nearly as snarky as you are.

Not that there's anything wrong with being snarky, you should just expect snark back, which you don't seem to do.

4:09 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

"Yes, but abuse, threats, and slander are to some degree in the eye of the beholder."

I cannot decide whether to respond "not really" or "not at all." Slander is easy. It is a legal term. To be slander, it must be a lie. No opinion there.

Threats are the use of promised violence or discomfort to manipulate another person. Bodily harm, legal problems, an attempt to ruin a reputation, these would be threats and rational, thinking people will agree on them.

Similarly, abuse is the use of concerted assault or intimidation as a means of controling another person. People throw the word around to vilanize any minor rude or unwanted behavior. Abuse is different. Abuse is not when someone calls me a name. Abuse is when someone sets out to control me by systematically calling me names. But for it to be abuse, there must be a pattern, intent, and the desire to control.

Sexual abuse of children is different in that there does not need to be a pattern, a single offense will suffice.

That is how I see it, I would be happy to hear how others agree or not.

Trey

4:16 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

br - Where do you think I write most of these comments?

4:19 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

anonymous 1:28:

You are accusing me of abuse and slander--slander is a serious legal charge--you are saying that I am a liar. Prove it.

There is a difference between being snarky which can be kind of humorous and/or sarcastic. Plenty of people here, myself included fall in that category. Big deal.

4:49 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Great news, Helen! Then I'm sure you'll take that attitude when snarkiness is handed back to you! Bid deal!

5:16 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

Oops. Almost fed the troll.

6:36 PM, June 29, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

Not you bugs! Just in case you went that way.

6:38 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lmao...
Helen, I check back here and see, hey, you ought to be hittin' my tip jar. Still, this "I'm being pursued by trolls" meme gets old, and I've noticed your other schtick seems to be wearing thin too. When there's little substance to begin with, well you tend to drop weight easily, you know?

My advice?: bulk up a bit and don't holler back so much when the boys start pulling your pigtails. Not me of course, I merely observe and critique.

But you know the meme... those boys will be boys! (Did I getcha enough follow up hits in the past few hours to rent you some gear for that next rented boat trip :)

8:58 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 4:09,

Helen is infamous for inciting inflammatory comments and becoming petulant when "trolls" point that out. While everyone is entitled to his or her political views, unlike Glenn's position in the Ivory Tower of academia, Helen plays a dual function of "forensic psychology" evaluating our community's youth. That's where her political ideologue crosses the line of impropriety and unfit to serve in any capacity as an impartial evaluator of girls and boys. Discrimination, Helen, is not protected. Your speech and petulance suggests you are unfit to hold such positions of trust in the public. Unlike Glenn, whose politics may be protected to certain degree in the ivory tower of academia, you are, well, the "instawife."

9:36 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Troll, troll, troll - I'm fed up with all this trolling. You'd think we're in the middle of Norse or Celtic mythology the way this blog throws the term "trolls" around. I half expect the Flying Dutchman to descend upon the scene in some draconian Wagneran operetta!! Who's this Dr. Helen? Why hasn't she appeared on Oprah yet?

10:31 PM, June 29, 2007  
Anonymous Momzilla said...

"... must ... resist ... satan ..."

/obscure Simpson's reference

12:07 AM, June 30, 2007  
Anonymous bw said...

That's where her political ideologue crosses the line of impropriety and unfit to serve in any capacity as an impartial evaluator of girls and boys.

If having a political opinion and being willing to express it disqualifies one from performing such duties, then anyone intelligent enough to do the job is unfit. Somehow, I doubt you have the same complaint about the legions of psychologists who are outspoken liberals, so it really comes down to your politics versus hers, which cancel out. Thus, unless you can match her credentials, you're really in no position to judge her comparative fitness for the job versus any other psychologist.

Now, if you wanted to condemn her evaluations on the basis of psychology in general being a pseudo-science used to promote a political philosophy, you might have a point, but then, that would render her politics a positive qualification based on being 180 degrees from that of the industry.

2:36 AM, June 30, 2007  
Anonymous Chuck Pelto said...

TO: bw, et al.
RE: On the Nosey!

"Now, if you wanted to condemn her evaluations on the basis of psychology in general being a pseudo-science used to promote a political philosophy, you might have a point, but then, that would render her politics a positive qualification based on being 180 degrees from that of the industry." -- bw

But I doubt if Anonymouse is willing to take that tack, it would end its fun-and-games by requiring detailed research and analysis of data instead of mere bombast. That would be too much like actual 'work'.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Work. It's a four-letter word.]

7:17 AM, June 30, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Anonymous 9:26:

You know, you really have me considering going into blogging, writing and punditry full time-- the more I hear from commenters like you, the more I realize the need for more free speech.

8:59 AM, June 30, 2007  
Blogger Graham said...

Helen,

For whatever it's worth, I think an awful lot of what you're saying needs hearing in a broader medium.

Just watch your MHR, 'kay?

-G

11:16 PM, June 30, 2007  
Blogger serket said...

mercuriour: "sometimes i think these people wouldnt know sense if it came up and but them on the ass (arse for the uks')"

This is totally off-topic, but you just reminded me of something. Apparently, Mark Steyn (a Canadian) caused some controversy by calling someone an arsehole. In the US we use that as a "soft" version of the real word.

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