Wednesday, July 11, 2007

A Different Dr. Helen

I was skimming through my new copy of Monitor on Psychology, a publication of the American Psychological Association and noticed that their division 48, The Society for the Study of Peace, Conflict and Violence was soliciting new members. I decided to take look at their website peacepsych.org to see what kind of ideas they had and wasn't surprised to see that leftist idealism was not only being peddled to members but professors in universities around the country were also turning in samples of syllabi as examples of how to teach students of psychology and other disciplines.

Most notable was one syllabus by Dr. Helen Fox from the University of Michigan who is teaching a course on "Nonviolence in Action," a course that is described as "Fulfils the Advanced Writing in the Disciplines (AWD) Requirement." It is not clear that this is a required course, I assume there are others to choose from, however, after reading over the syllabus, it seems to me that students are being indoctrinated into a left-leaning mode of thought as well as being asked to support the professor's pet anti-war organizations. Here are the course goals:

Course Goals
• to understand some of the philosophies that motivate nonviolent action,
including tenets of five major religions
• to learn how nonviolent social movements have worked in countries around
the world
• to learn and practice some of the methods and strategies of nonviolent action
• to learn to respond to arguments that justify war and aggression
• to practice nonviolent action in the community, teach peace, and/or contribute
to a nonviolent social movement


Apparently, students are also being asked to become some type of "activist" in the professor's pet political organizations:

Community Action
In small groups, you will decide on nonviolent action projects you want to pursue in the community. This might involve a specific project with the UM student organization Anti-War Action, internships with the Ann Arbor Area Committee for Peace or other peace groups, peace education of children or teens in schools or religious institutions, training and practice in nonviolent dialogue or conflict resolution, or other appropriate ways of learning and practicing nonviolent action.


Here is the grading system:

Your grade or RC evaluation will be based on the quality and depth of your writing, your attendance and involvement in class, and your contributions to your community project.


So, if one decides to join a community project promoting peace by joining the local Ann Arbor pro-life group, does that count? What if a student doesn't believe that the ideals promoted by the professor are accurate and believes that sometimes military action is warranted, can they still take the class? If a student writes a paper supporting military action as opposed to non-action, is that acceptable? Should the American Psychological Assocation be supporting professors at public universities who are soliciting student volunteers for their pet political projects? Is this fair to students who are dependent on the professor for a grade?

A recent Zogby poll showed that a majority of Americans think political bias among college professors is a serious problem--and after taking a look at some of the syllabi promoted by the American Psychological Association's division 48, I can see why.

Labels:

92 Comments:

Blogger geekWithA.45 said...

You're just catching on, Doc?

My wife, the formidable and lovely geeketteW/A 9mm, a teacher, clued me in years ago.

It works like this: Left leaning foundations fund astroturf issue organizations, who, as part of their public education charter, offer free lesson plans and collateral materials with embedded indoctrination materials to beleaguered teachers, who then integrate them into their classrooms.

The teachers, either being believers themselves, or insufficiently adept at propaganda detection, gratefully accept the materials without further question.

It's been going on for years, and anyone who notices and objects is deemed deviant.

1:15 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

geekwitha.45,

No, I am not just catching on--I know this stuff has been going on for years--but it is good to bring it up and talk about it frequently so that people don't become complacent and accept the propaganda as fact. I noticed this stuff in second grade and have been labled a "deviant" ever since. What people have to overcome is the fear of being labeled a deviant for speaking up about it.

1:23 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm curious: do you not see a benefit in knowing how to both fight wars and how to solve conflict through non-violent means? And why wouldn't a pro-life organization be a good place to practice non-violent techniques. Or are you saying that it is the general understanding that pro-life organizations don't practice non-violence and that the professor would veto this as a practicum choice?

Q-Grrl

1:34 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Peregrine John said...

Perhaps the other Dr. Helen has confused nonviolent with pacifist? As an easy example, I am demonstrably the first but manifestly not the second.

1:41 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape. Courses like these are probably electives, and only like-minded people will take them. It's free credits for students to do stuff they're already doing.

However, it is sad to see the APA embrace this kind of stuff. They're pretty much a joke, and Exhibit A in explaining why the psychology field doesn't get the respect that (I think) it deserves. I was lucky to have almost exclusively professional and scientifically-minded professors (even the left-wing ones, if you could even figure out their political orientations). Unfortunately, the APA doesn't do them justice.

Rizzo

2:00 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous walt moffett said...

Won't this be better suited for the Social Work Department?

Community Organizing and Group Work are required subjects there.

This seems like a step backwards for Psychology.

I guess Podiatrists will soon have a Peace syllabus after the establishment of the Accountants for Peace minor

Glad my kids went to trade school instead.

2:27 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Q-grrl seems to have all the lefty talking points down. But why is this being funded with taxpayer money at a state university, and in a setting where students are steered to a particular political position -- and encouraged to serve as unpaid labor for that position?

The Zogby poll captures the effect of this kind of thing.

2:34 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous slamdunk said...

Good post. It is good that you and other members outside the mainstream media expose these professors--maybe mainstream will catch-up someday. Unfortunately, I think most universities offer agenda-driven courses. I also believe that private foundations and funders have been successful in providing resources to faculty to develop young practioners of these agendas.

I think a class studying the successes and failures of non-violence would be interesting, but it would be problematic to accept the mandatory practicing part.

Regardless of the topic, I believe that most students have other goals in deciding what class to take. As a reformed do-no-more- than-enough-to-get-by-with-the-highest-possible-grade (it took entering the workforce after undergrad to change me) club, I would have looked at the syllabus, scanned to the grading portion, smiled and mumbled "Sign me up for this easy A."

2:35 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger sean said...

I wouldn't get too alarmed. Most of us, when we grow up, regard our teachers and their ideas with bemused contempt, singing softly, "When I think back on all the c--- I learned in high school . . . ." In fact, my 7th grade daughter mocks her teachers almost constantly--the same as I did at her age.

2:35 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is why I'm not a member of APA. Why is this an official "division" of APA?

2:49 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Richard Aubrey said...

anonymous 1:34.
Do you mean to imply that a class like this is the only way to learn non-violent action?

Why wouldn't a pro-life group be a good place to practice it? Dumb question. It would be a good place. Only problem is, the student who chose it would flunk, if not also be assigned some kind of re-education/self-criticism/self-abnegation program as a condition of continuing to be a student there.

2:50 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger David said...

Sean...you can laugh at someone and still be influenced by them. I think it was one of Remarque's characters who said, reflecting on his high school teachers: "We may have laughed at them, but we trusted them."

2:50 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Mike K said...

It's all very wll to say kids don't pay attention but they do. I have a 17-year-old and am thinking about where she should go. My 26-year-old went to UCLA and, while she was a bit left leaning before she got there, her willingness to accept other points of view declined at UCLA. For example, she was an Anthropology major in the Honors Program. I suggested she read Steven PInker's book, "The Blank Slate" after I finished it. She refused unless I read Gould's "Mismeasure of Man." I had already read it and she still refused to read the Pinker book. I was very disappointed and attribute this to indoctrination. By the way, that Pinker book is excellent.

3:04 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Eleanor Deakin said...

*thumbs up*

That is so wrong on so many levels. Universities are becoming as worthless as public schools.

3:05 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger james said...

Thought police incoming. Are you trying to strip professors of their right to conduct their classes in ways they see fit? Just what is your point here? To me this smells like nothing more than b.s. right wing whining. You offer no real proof that anyone has been adversely impacted by this course yet you burden it with all manner of sinister innuendo.


So, if one decides to join a community project promoting peace by joining the local Ann Arbor pro-life group, does that count?


What does attempting to ban a medical procedure have to do with non-violence?

I noticed this stuff in second grade and have been labled a "deviant" ever since. What people have to overcome is the fear of being labeled a deviant for speaking up about it.

I am one hundred percent positive you have never been called a deviant. But you are disingenuous.

Your husband is too much of a panderer to allow comments but since you do, here's something interesting about that scientifically unsound poll you and he are flouting about:

Predictably, whether political bias is a problem depends greatly on the philosophy of the respondents. While 91% of very conservative adults said the bias is a "serious problem," just 3% of liberals agreed.

Sort of changes the data analysis doesn't it? You like your husband take information (often bad or unproven) skew it further and then present it as proof of the validity of your looking glass suppositions.

Your movement is lucky to have two such stalwart conservatives behind the walls of the liberal encampments to help them destroy these evil and malicious institutions.

Keep up the good work!

3:07 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger james said...

That is so wrong on so many levels. Universities are becoming as worthless as public schools.

That might be the dumbest thing I have read today, and I read this whole post twice!

3:08 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Any University course that pertains to "Peace studies" is merely a vehicle for leftwing anti-American/anti-military agit-prop. Same with all the other identity group "studies" courses and majors.

3:08 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Thought police incoming. Are you trying to strip professors of their right to conduct their classes in ways they see fit? Just what is your point here?

The point is the rampant consumer fraud of left wing political indoctrination masquerading as scholorship and science in Universities.

3:15 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Megan said...

Not at all surprised. I took a required elective for my Political Science major...it was a gender studies course *gag me*.

One of my course books actually SAID that any sex between a man and a woman was rape and that all women are inherently lesbians who are oppressed by all men. It was so pathetic.

And even though kids may not listen actively, they do get these ideas thrown at them so much that they start to take them in and believe them.

Nobody actually teaches the students to think for themselves. The professors don't want students who question their beliefs. And most students aren't there to think deeply and question their professors.

College is completely overrated for most students right out of high school. My degree has done nothing to help me in my current career...it's just an expensive piece of paper.

3:17 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

James, your parsing of that Zogby poll seems to prove its point -- if conservatives think there's bias and liberals don't, that probably means there's pretty uniform liberal bias.

3:17 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does attempting to ban a medical procedure have to do with non-violence?

Don't want to ban abortion myself but anyone can see how disingenuous a remark this is.

3:19 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous D said...

you know, there are first class institutions in iran who would be more than happy to show how effective peace dialog is...

oh, wait. they eliminate intellectuals for thought crimes there, don't they?

I saw a sticker encrusted car on the way to work this morning with:
"Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding." from Einstein... and I always wondered if he only thought that long after WWII when he was in a relatively peaceful country, where free-speech was a law. I wonder what his reaction to religious zelotry would be, where discussion isn't even on the table. Where there is no state no country of origin, but a religion like radical islam, across many countries.

Discussion works if both parties agree to discuss. If one doesn't share your interest in discussion, you can't guilt them into it, and assuming you can is an unbalanced way of looking at it...

3:23 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger El Duderino said...

James is full of shite and he knows it.
You can get away with the most inane left wing, anti-Christian, pro-gay buffoonery at most any American University. Try and present an opposing position from a conservative, orthodox position and they will roast you on a spit.

3:44 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous brian said...

"James" - It's nice to see a name (although probably a false one) finally attributed to one of the doctor's stalkers.

As was already mentioned, wouldn't you think that an unbiased media would have gotten similar numbers from both liberals and conservatives as to perceived bias?

Of course not. Because in your world, "liberal" thought is normal, and everything else is dismissed as "extremist". Therefore, a left-leaning media empire is not biased, but "reasonable", while anything that even hints at center or right-of-center is "out of the mainstream".

It's called confirmation bias, and the media is loaded with it. They don't see themselves as liberals because "I don't know anyone who voted for Nixon".

3:46 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger M. Simon said...

Iran holds weekly death to America rallys.

I propose a peaceful compromise. We don't want any Americans dead. They want all Americans dead.

So how about half?

There are no end of possibilities for peace if we would only learn to compromise. Peace Studies can be very helpful.

4:10 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger JAM said...

I saw an entertainingly subversive little film on one of the cable classic movie channels this past weekend (might have been AMC or TCM, not sure) called Lord Love a Duck, (imdb.com link) starring Roddy McDowall and Tuesday Weld. Released in 1967, it is most remeniscent (prescient?) of Heathers in the way it cut through aspects of teen culture. It notably had quite a bit to say about (specifically) the California public schools of the time and the so-called "progressive" education then being disseminated. Harvey Korman played the school principal, and was dead on. At one point after being slightly reprimanded by the principal, Roddy's character Alan says to him (in a very mild sort of way that Christian Slater in Heathers could never have pulled off) "You've got a good thing going here. Don't blow your cool." The nutty notions of social engineering and career guidance were portrayed for what they were.

It was hilarious and disturbing throughout. Recommended.

4:15 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Auto Report World Editors said...

It would be an interesting thought experiment to take the course and present a contrarian point, that non-violent protest, like Gandhi and MLK jr, only works if two criteria exist. The first criteria is that the protest is against a more or less moral regime that will not resort to oppressive tactics to suppress protest. The second criteria is that there has to be a credible threat of violent protest. Almost all activist groups need more radical fellow travelers to appear more reasonable.

Actually, I never finished my degree at Michigan, am still in good academic standing, and could probably enroll in Dr. Fox' course.

Ann Arbor is a wonderful place to live, and Michigan can be as good a school as there is, but the leftist orthodoxy is as entrenched there as anyplace on earth.

4:20 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Jerri said...

I am a non-traditional (older student) Graduate student and a student member of APA and it seems to me that even it is left leaning in general. Maybe some of the divisions are more balanced but not Div.35 Psychology of Women. I want to be a part of this division but it's focus does not seem to include regular women with issues of family, work, community, etc. I seems to focus its attention on the minority not the majority issues. This is just one example. Thanks for talking about what is very prevalent in the Academic Community, I know because I have been living it for 6 years (even in Oklahoma).

4:22 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I work in academia, and it is indeed a problem sufficient to worry about. The opposing view of this phony pacifism is not merely omitted from the culture, but is actively suppressed.

And we are training the next generation of teachers and professors with this bilge, which ensures an even weaker American psyche in the next generation.

4:33 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Dougger said...


Thought police incoming. Are you trying to strip professors of their right to conduct their classes in ways they see fit? Just what is your point here?


The point is there is no such right. It is a privilege granted by their employers that has gone on too long. As a public university, UM should be accountable to the taxpayers of Michigan; that public trust has been violated. Without a requirement for balance and emphasis on real critical thinking (which requires the removal of bias), it is not education but indoctrination.

Check out the following article to see how this bias is damaging the value of a degree:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=467347&in_page_id=1770



“So, if one decides to join a community project promoting peace by joining the local Ann Arbor pro-life group, does that count?“

What does attempting to ban a medical procedure have to do with non-violence?


Helen’s point is that as a Liberal, the professor likely takes a strong pro-choice stance. Would supporting a pro-life organization as part of her class piss the prof off?

4:41 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger james said...

"brian" you seem like a real idiot. Save your idiocy for someone else. Stalker? Interestingly misogynistic choice of words.

James, your parsing of that Zogby poll seems to prove its point -- if conservatives think there's bias and liberals don't, that probably means there's pretty uniform liberal bias.

I didn't parse it it's in the body of the report and somehow omitted. It means the numbers are screwed up and not representative. My point isn't that professors aren't more left leaning, they are, it's this weird affirmative action movement people like Dr Helen want to enact. There is a reason more liberal people enter the profession, but rooting them out or forcing conservative thought upon.

What does "work" in academia mean anyway?

4:47 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger james said...

The point is there is no such right. It is a privilege granted by their employers that has gone on too long. As a public university, UM should be accountable to the taxpayers of Michigan; that public trust has been violated.

Yeah please show me the tax money versus grants donations and tuition. Should every institution that gets state tax money have it's entirety voted upon every two years? That seems pretty stupid.

What is it with you rightwing weirdos and the Daily Mail these days?

Helen’s point is that as a Liberal, the professor likely takes a strong pro-choice stance. Would supporting a pro-life organization as part of her class piss the prof off?

So why not choose a pro-war organization? She is equating abortion with violence plainly. Also, if she meant what would happen if a student picked something purposefully to antagonize the professor she should have said that.

You poor paranoid people-how do you make it through the day?

4:54 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous JeanE said...

I have had a fair amount of experience with parents advocating "non-violent conflict resolution" among kids, and have found both the kids and the parents to be the biggest bullies on the playground. My all time favorite was an incident in which 2 boys from "non-violent" families urinated on the bags and toys some of the girls had brought to a weekly play day. The parents were told of the problem, but the behavior was repeated the following week. When confronted with the problem, the boys' parents said that they thought the kids should work the problem out on their own, so the girls decided that those boys would be excluded from their playhouse and asked another parent to stand guard, so to speak. This would seem to be an extremely moderate response to such offensive behavior, but the boys' parents were outraged- their poor darlings were being forcibly prevented from going into the playhouse- such violence was unacceptable!

While I do have a friend who is a genuine pacifist, and lives in accordance with her beliefs, most of the advocates of "non-violence" that I have met just want to get their own way. Whenever they are crossed or contradicted, they demand, in loud and threatening tones, that you quit using force and instead use "non-violent conflict resolution", so I wonder what the APA considers to be the methods and strategies of non-violent action.

4:55 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Jeane,

"I wonder what the APA considers to be the methods and strategies of non-violent action."

A lot of discussion and "dialogue"--maybe some group therapy?

5:01 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Pacifists in the USA are parasites. They gain the benefits of others defending their rights, by force, if necessary, while contributing nothing towards that defense.

My all time favorite was an incident in which 2 boys from "non-violent" families urinated on the bags and toys some of the girls had brought to a weekly play day. The parents were told of the problem, but the behavior was repeated the following week.

Good lord! These kids were allowed back in the school?!

5:08 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger tomcal said...

Maybe they should substitute in "On Killing" which you so heartily endorsed.

I'm over here reading it on Catalina Island, but I have to say that parts of it have almost caused me to puke my nachos into my margarita...

5:09 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

james...

As with some who come in here with an opposing view of what is stated, you seem to have to resort to name calling. Leave that out so I can hear what you're saying. It's not necessary, and your intelligence
doesn't need that kind of help to get your points across.

Thanks.

5:15 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Pogo said...

The teacher has left honest academic appraisal and teaching and chosen to turn class time into a PAC.

She should be fired for nonperformance.

5:16 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd love to see some examples of successful non-violent resistance that don't involve either the US or the British Empire. The author Harry Turtledove wrote an interesting alternate history set in a post-WWII India after the Nazis have beaten the Brits. Guess how well Gandhi's tactics work against them in story.

5:38 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

She is equating abortion with violence plainly.

Um, no, actually, that isn't necessarily what she's doing at all. Isn't chaining yourself to a clinic door non-violent protest? Or can only people who agree with you do that?

So far you've called your opponents thought police and paranoid.

5:38 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

James is an idiot. And a dishonest one.

In other words, he's a leftie.

5:44 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Left-Nazis use "plainly" to mean "I assert that."

5:50 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

I wonder how many madrassas are offering courses in "Peace Studies?"

6:01 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Deoxy said...

She is equating abortion with violence plainly.

You have no clue, plainly.

She was, in fact, suggesting that the average pro-life group is both quite peaceful AND would not be accepted by the professor in question.

In other words, the whole things is a cover for political indoctrination.

And many people believe her because they experienced the same kind of thing at the hands of other professors; it's VERY common.

"ames, your parsing of that Zogby poll seems to prove its point -- if conservatives think there's bias and liberals don't, that probably means there's pretty uniform liberal bias.

I didn't parse it it's in the body of the report and somehow omitted. It means the numbers are screwed up and not representative."


That's quite a logical leap; conservatives and liberals disagree on whether there is bias, so obviously, there is bias and the numbers are screwed up? Wow - and you question OUR intelligence.

It's quite simple: approximately half the population is "libral" (left) and half "conservative" (right). The left half think everything is peachy, and the right half is nearly unanimous in seeing strong political bias to the left.

If those situations were reversed...

Nevermind. Why do I bother?

Most of us, when we grow up, regard our teachers and their ideas with bemused contempt...my 7th grade daughter mocks her teachers almost constantly--the same as I did at her age.

With some notable exceptions, I still generally do; in fact, I do so MORE.

I did it then because I hated school and thought it was a waste of time; I do so now because I hate what I was put through and KNOW it was a waste of time.

Note that I did have some good teachers and managed to get a good education, but 6-8th grade (which you mentioned) wasn't much part of that; I got better teachers in high school, as it was a larger school with an honors program. That is to say, I got a better education because I CHOSE to and sought it out, not because it was remotely required to graduate.

6:23 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Can't remember if I found it on this blog, another blog, or someplace else entirely, but this guy has some interesting things to say about why, for some people, school sucks.

6:30 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Vicki Small said...

Correction to the syllabus: Your course grade will be based on attendance and involvement in class; your participation in a non-violent action project (to be approved by the professor); and your ability to parrot the professor's views in your written assignments. Any written assignment that attempts to counter the principles studied in this course will receive a failing grade. If they are otherwise well-written, they may earn as much as a D.

6:46 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

First, some disclosure—I went to graduate school at U of M several decades ago and at that time its chief sins seemed to be filthy hippies/druggies/Hari Krishnas on the diag, hubris (university administrators repeated the mantra, “our sister universities Harvard, Princeton and Yale” at every opportunity) and pot, pot everywhere. Now, I see they’re joined the ever lengthening line of formerly great, or, at least somewhat great in this department or that at some point in the past American Universities who are waiting their turn to jump down and swirl around the toilet bowl of fraudulence and irrelevancy.

It has been said many times before that the Left has captured the Academy and this is a perfect illustration of that point. Peace studies are, basically, crap, as anyone who has read, for instance, the jargon and mathematics laden garbage produced by the U.S. Government’s Institute of Peace can attest to. As has also been pointed out, without those “beasts,” “baby-killers,” “Nazis,” etc., etc. in our military protecting their sorry asses by putting their own lives at risk, academics would not have the luxury of basking in the superior moral glow of things like “Peace studies.”

6:51 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger P. Rich said...

"Non-violent conflict resolution" appears in practice to be the equivalent of passive-aggressive behavior. As pointed out above, there seems always to be the unspoken threat barely concealed behind the typical in-your-face non-violent facade. Inherent in the whole scenario is a high degree of dishonesty.

Dr. Helen, perhaps you could comment?

7:00 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous Bruce Lagasse said...

Over the years, I've read, from several sources, that Gandhi urged Jews in Nazi Germany not to resist or fight back, but to accept meekly their deaths in the extermination camps, so as to maintain their moral superiority over the Germans.

8:37 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

Q-Girl wrote: "do you not see a benefit in knowing how to both fight wars and how to solve conflict through non-violent means?"

Conflict resolution is certainly a wonderful skill and worth teaching.

I would love to see someone "fight wars" in non-violent fashion. Not someone I loved or cared about, but someone who is clueless and ready to die (and thus cleanse the gene pool) for their naivety.

Non-violent war fighting is perhaps the most amazing bit of illogic I have read in 6 months.

Simply astounding.

Trey

8:54 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

James, if you have enrolled and passed some of these non-violent peace courses, you should ask for your money back. They did not take.

Trey

8:55 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger tomcal said...

I think we have to consider the meaning of "Conflict". Here in the U.S., we resolve disputes - conflicts - through our judicial system, without violence, every day.

But once we reach the point of ideological battles with other societies, especially those that see their mission as the outright destruction of ours, there is no medieation, there is no negotiation, there is no court of final jusisdiction; there is only our ability to prevail in the use of military power.

Sad, but true.

9:20 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger tomcal said...

As evidenced by the above post,, I have continued drinking Margaritas since my last one at 5:09. I appoligize for ahy embarrassment this may have coused.

Tom

9:30 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

"do you not see a benefit in knowing how to both fight wars and how to solve conflict through non-violent means?"

Sorry Trey, she just put the 'both' in the wrong place. It was apparent to me that Q-Girl meant "do you not see a benefit to knowing both how to fight wars and how to solve conflict through non-violent means?"

10:07 PM, July 11, 2007  
Blogger Jay Manifold said...

Time to revive that great student organization active at the University of Chicago in the late '60s, the Students for Violent Non-Action.

10:35 PM, July 11, 2007  
Anonymous OTR said...

"Intellectuals" have been pulling these same stunts since the dawn of man - which probably explains why the other end of the spectrum goes after them first, absent a reliable sorting process.

Worse, excessive thought tends to breed untenable, impractical rationalizations, which sap and remove - when manifestly necessary - the capacity for physical violence.

Unfortunately, during these lulls in violent history, we must endure increasing amounts of thought-filled silliness. That is, until it becomes dangerous, like now.

OTR (Over-The-Road Trucker)

12:13 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

Olig, well, then I am so sorry for the jab. My bad.

Thanks for setting me straight. I feel rather stupid now! Not the last time I wager.

Trey

2:58 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger jw said...

I like the idea of non-violent resolution of conflict. The base idea is great and includes all that is good in our species.

That said, current non-violent thinking also says that males are violent, not can-be-violent. Current non-violent thinking also says that female are non-violent, not can-be-non-violent.

The gender component of the non-violence structure as it is contains so much violence --as hate-- that it is MORE violent than the Hawks.

That's one thing. There's also a feeling in non-violence that all people and all conflicts can or should be handled non-violently. That is not a good way of thinking! Most ... Yes, I'll go along with most. But I cannot go along with all.

4:49 AM, July 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I knew a social worker who did her program's required internship with the Kerry campaign. It's hard to be surprised after that.

6:14 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger knoxwhirled said...

training and practice in nonviolent dialogue

Gotta watch out for that violent dialogue.

8:19 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

"Gotta watch out for that violent dialogue."

You can read some here, scroll up to some of the people who are upset about the critique of non-violence.

Heh.

Trey

8:59 AM, July 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sgt Ted: yeah, but those stinkin' pacifists vote too. What's the current voting rate of the US Military? If it's less than 100% you're army's nothing less than state supported mercenaries. Shit, I wonder if all those soldiers even know what rights they're defending? Most civilians don't, and with the military's heavy recruiting of the poor and undereducated, I seriously doubt those noble soldiers know their government.

They aren't fighting for our rights. They're fighting for a fucking paycheck.

Q-Grrl

10:06 AM, July 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Correction to the syllabus: Your course grade will be based on attendance and involvement in class; your participation in a non-violent action project (to be approved by the professor); and your ability to parrot the professor's views in your written assignments. Any written assignment that attempts to counter the principles studied in this course will receive a failing grade. If they are otherwise well-written, they may earn as much as a D."

The astute student can actually 'learn' from this.

The future businessman learns to provide the consumer want they want, even though it seems a stupid product that he himself would never buy. E.g. the pet rock, the tea-totaller running a liquor store, the used car salesman getting the lemon off his lot, the insurance man selling you want gets the most commission rather than the cheaper/better product he choose to not tell you about, et cetera. And then there's the politician...

/snark with an element of truth/

Personnally, I've been told there are times I've been 'too honest for my own good'. In hindsight, sometimes it was misplaced righteousness, and sometimes it was standing up for the right thing. Learning to 'choose your battles' vs 'go along to get along' is part of growing up.

10:17 AM, July 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Q-Grrl: Please stop you display of ignorance. It is quite obvious that you have no idea of what the people in the Armed Forces are like.

Anyways, I too am a alumn of the Univ of Michigan, and still live in Ann Arbor. One of my majors was offered by the School of Natural Resources and Environment , located in the Dana Building. That school, was probably the worst at U-M, with uber-leftists and extreme environmental activists ran the show. I knwo people who , instead of doing academic work, worked at the peoples food Co-op, or in other activist groups. It was in the early 1990s, so, students were given credit for participating in Pres Bill clinton's campaign office, or for protesting outside the ROTC building , etc.
The "faculty" were the types, who probably would have considered the other Dr Helen a conservative!!!
Anyways, things went so far, that the University was forced( despite a lotof angry protests) to shut the entire undergrad program at the SNRE down!!!

10:28 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger Troy said...

I taught (adjunct) a Constitutional law course at a Cal. State. You should've seen the faces when I launched into the Natural law/ Declaration of Independence intro lecture complete with legal though from everyone from the Greeks to St. Augustine to Thomas Aquinas. Most were actually receptive, but there were a few "Holy sh*t" faces. Salmon are onto something -- swimming against the current is quite invigorating.

11:03 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Q-Grrl: You are a cliche. Please stop.

11:50 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger TMink said...

OK Olig, maybe I was right after all about the "fight wars through non-violent means."

Who knows!

Trey

11:56 AM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger Eleanor Deakin said...

I'm just wondering how not having comments on a blog makes one a panderer. This is some pretty faulty reasoning. He has e-mail, what's the big deal? If he wrote in a newspaper or magazine, you might have to resort to - gasp! - letters to the editor and not even have your comments published!

12:04 PM, July 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Troy,
I wish I could have been in that class.
Tennwriter

12:28 PM, July 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Q-Grrl: You are a cliche. Please stop."

See. Right there! Brava for Step 1 in non-violent interaction.

Peace out.

2:02 PM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger br549 said...

Peace out, man. Peace out.

English major?

5:16 PM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Cliche salutations, also. Boring...

5:17 PM, July 12, 2007  
Blogger David said...

Q-grrl...try reading some blogs written by military people and their spouses and see if you can learn something about what these people are actually like, rather than dealing in the stereotypes prevalent in your social circle.

9:06 PM, July 12, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"They're fighting for a f***ing paycheck."

And aren't you lucky that they are?

11:35 AM, July 13, 2007  
Blogger LarryD said...

Why this matters. Can you say bigotry and persecution of the innocent?

1:27 PM, July 15, 2007  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

Trey -- Well, crap. I do believe she meant to write the sentence as I stated she did, but I now think she wasn't writing her actual views. If she had, she wouldn't be passing on the "military's heavy recruiting of the poor and undereducated" crap.

8:05 AM, July 16, 2007  
Blogger tomcal said...

Well Helen, I finished "On Killing" and found it so fascinating that I have started "On Combat". See you when I am through.

1:26 AM, July 17, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

I'm still waiting for "On Cannibalism." I've always wondered why it's so hard to get people to eat each other.

12:41 PM, July 17, 2007  
Blogger tomcal said...

I was at a Catholic Mass in Nicaragua the other day. As the wine turned into blood and the bread turned into flesh, I commented to a friend: "This is really a ritual of cannibalisim, isn't it?" My comment was unwise.

11:03 PM, July 17, 2007  
Blogger Bugs said...

Yeah - save those remarks for your field trip to New Guinea.

4:53 PM, July 19, 2007  
Anonymous Bozoer Rebbe said...

tomcal said...

I was at a Catholic Mass in Nicaragua the other day. As the wine turned into blood and the bread turned into flesh, I commented to a friend: "This is really a ritual of cannibalisim, isn't it?" My comment was unwise.


Impolitic, perhaps, but not necessarily unwise. Mexican natives call psilocybin mushrooms Teonanacatl, Aztec for "flesh of the gods", so the idea of theophagy, ingesting a god, is not unknown to man. My own feeling is that the eucharist and communion reflects pagan influences on Christianity since I am unaware of anything similar in Judaism.

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