Tuesday, August 07, 2007

More of the Nanny State

It seems that NYC is attempting to make it illegal to use the word "bitch" or "ho":

The New York City Council, which drew national headlines when it passed a symbolic citywide ban earlier this year on the use of the so-called n-word, has turned its linguistic (and legislative) lance toward a different slur: bitch.

The term is hateful and deeply sexist, said Councilwoman Darlene Mealy of Brooklyn, who has introduced a measure against the word, saying it creates “a paradigm of shame and indignity” for all women.

But conversations over the last week indicate that the “b-word” (as it is referred to in the legislation) enjoys a surprisingly strong currency — and even some defenders — among many New Yorkers.

And Ms. Mealy admitted that the city’s political ruling class can be guilty of its use. As she circulated her proposal, she said, “even council members are saying that they use it to their wives.”

The measure, which 19 of the 51 council members have signed onto, was prompted in part by the frequent use of the word in hip-hop music. Ten rappers were cited in the legislation, along with an excerpt from an 1811 dictionary that defined the word as “A she dog, or doggess; the most offensive appellation that can be given to an English woman.”

While the bill also bans the slang word “ho,” the b-word appears to have acquired more shades of meaning among various groups, ranging from a term of camaraderie to, in a gerund form, an expression of emphatic approval. Ms. Mealy acknowledged that the measure was unenforceable, but she argued that it would carry symbolic power against the pejorative uses of the word. Even so, a number of New Yorkers said they were taken aback by the idea of prohibiting a term that they not only use, but do so with relish and affection.


When will pejorative uses of words against men be prohibited? Probably when hell freezes over. Not that they should be prohibited--people have the right to use such negative words without having to worry that they are illegal--even if they do not meet with everyone's approval, that is what free speech should be about.

Update: David Harsanyi has more: "(On a personal note, I don't like the idea of being hampered by laws at home. As someone who has called his wife the B-Word, I would only support such a ban if her usage of, say the word "prick," a paradigm of shame and indignity for all men, were also banned to balance the "discussion.")"

Labels:

42 Comments:

Blogger Master Doh-San said...

Freedom's a bitch, ain't it? :-)

6:21 PM, August 07, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When will pejorative uses of words against men be prohibited?

No Helen.

And if you would have read a bit further, this one isn't going to be pass either.

No need to bitch about something that's not prohibited, sweetie.

6:26 PM, August 07, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any opinion on something that actually is prohibited:

The "n" word which affects both men and women alike.

Suddenly your gender rant falls flat, eh?

6:27 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Food Goes In Mouth said...

Banning the "n" word sounds like another way for The Man™ to punish the black community. Or did they ban the word "context" too?

6:43 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Master Doh-San said...

"And if you would have read a bit further, this one isn't going to be pass either."

What difference does it make whether or not it passes? The point is that it should never even have been considered, let alone introduced.

6:47 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

"And if you would have read a bit further, this one isn't going to be pass either."

Relax, it's not a threat.

The vote wasn't even close.

You can't hype a dead threat, can you?

The point is that it should never even have been considered, let alone introduced.

You're new to this system of democracy, eh? Have no fear. Or better yet, save it for the things that actually, you know, pass into law.

7:10 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Master Doh-San said...

"Or better yet, save it for the things that actually, you know, pass into law."

"Deal with a thing while it is still nothing." -- Lao Tzu

(PS: We don't live in a democracy; we live in a constitutional republic.)

7:21 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Cham said...

This is almost as much fun as flag burning amendments. Do we have a 1st amendment or don't we? Now the gubmit can tap our overseas phone conversations, I don't see much of this well-touted freedom that our esteemed government says that we have, perhaps Americans aren't as free as we think we are. I think it's 1984 already.

I reserve the right to utter the words bitch, nigger and ho. Sometimes they have applications.

7:30 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

"Deal with a thing while it is still nothing." -- Lao Tzu

Lol. But it's already been dealt with -- voted down.

Here's a more modern one:
"Pick your fucking battles.
-- A Fighter, not a Hyper (Time tested too)

(PS: We don't live in a democracy; we live in a constitutional republic.)

Ah, another "academic", eh? Lol Fear not:

Whether a democracy or a republic, your right to call someone a bitch is well preserved in America today, despite the hype.

Don't let the ladies with blog space to fill put the fear of god into you. Lol. It failed. No cause for alarm, no need to pass any special protections to protect the men out here.

(Lol -- I wish helen had someone masculine to reassure her of things like this in her times of fear. Hyping fear seems to run in the family... :) OMG!!-- is that a weapon of mass destruction, or are you just glad to see me?!?

Sorry to joke, but this thread -- indeed the original post -- seems to invite mockery. Doesn't helen realize that any credibility she might have in reporting on real male problems (you know, that actual men encounter in the real world) is sadly undermined by hyping bogus threats like this one?

7:45 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger BobH said...

I wonder if there will be an exception if a homosexual uses the word to describe another homosexual.

8:42 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

No bobh.
It didn't pass.

So Dan Imus is still safe to visit town, and you can call anybody a bitch if you want to.

Rest easy, folks. Nobody's going to make a victim of you for talking trash about your fellow beings. Now you just might get popped in the nose from one of those fellas bobh, but that's not what you were asking...

(I know hoping to get a stir out of some for using that offensive "homosexual" language on a thread about bitches and ho's. No go; we're laying off the hype factor tonight and helen appears to have exhausted herself worrying about non-threats. At least she didn't cost up billions of dollars and sacrifice troop cohesion on her irrational fears though :)

8:48 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Charlie Martin said...

I wonder if there'll be an exception if a dog breeder uses it to describe a bit-- er, "dogess".

8:50 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Master Doh-San said...

Mary, perhaps your time would be better spent reading something like "It Can't Happen Here".

"Eternal vigilance is the price of freedom."

8:52 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

Thank you for thinking of me Mr.Doh. I have plenty of reading material on my plate thanks, no need for any freebies.

Maybe you should read less, and think more. Because 1) nobody's coming to take away your gun, 2) nobody's going to make you clean your plate and eat all your fruits and veggies, 3) nobody's trying to castrate your boy in elementary school just get him to sit down turn in his work and stop disrupting his classmates who are eager to learn, 4) nobody in Iraq attacked the World Trade Centers -- they came from our ally Saudi Arabia, 5) nobody sane is going to nuke Iran, an last but not least, 6) nobody is going to imprison Don Imus or anybody else who calls someone a bitch in NYC.

No, not thanks to helen's "eternal vigilance" (Btw, I think that quote went out of vogue when we equated serving your country militarily with prancing around waving a purple finger in the air with your wife and daughter). This proposal was never even close to being enacted, something helen would have learned had she actually read the article instead of getting scardey to fit her "victimized men" theme.

Now quit worrying about nothing, and go read something constuctive?

9:18 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Master Doh-San said...

Life must be so nice out there in Unicornutopia.

9:34 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

Nope, no unicorns.
Plenty of other wild critters though. Clean air and water, lots of open land, fit bodies for loving, outdoor work and play, lots of quality books...
I guess if you're happy where you're at, contentment comes easier and if you're not, all the money and fear-mongering in the world won't make you feel more secure, eh MasterDoh?

Didja ever think of moving somewhere you like better, or finding work that better suits your needs? Cuz the fear, hype, and empty information gathering must leave you hungry for something real, I imagine.

It's a big world out there. Get out and look around some before you go crawl off in your corner to hide?

9:55 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Master Doh-San said...

It's so hilarious to watch people who have no clue.

9:58 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

Hey...
quit lookin in that mirror Mr.Doh! helen's trying to put on her face.

11:09 PM, August 07, 2007  
Blogger El Duderino said...

Please, the terms bitch and ho are so last year. If you really want to insult a woman, point out how her shoes don't really go with her outfit or tell her hair style makes her look older and fatter. Or better yet make fun of her ankles or cankles if you will. One comment like this 23 years ago put Hillary Clinton into pant suits for good.

12:09 AM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Mercurior said...

if they try once, they will try again and again until they do get it to pass.

i have two bitches here, they are happy everytime they see me they wag their tails (they are dogs are the words banned for animals as well)

3:43 AM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Master Doh-San said...

"if they try once, they will try again and again until they do get it to pass."

That's largely true, although what really matters to them is the chilling effect that their attempts have.

4:27 AM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

if they try once, they will try again and again until they do get it to pass.

That's largely true, although what really matters to them is the chilling effect that their attempts have.


HAVE NO FEAR.
Don't let helen scare you all. Read that article. Wasn't even close to passing.

Honestly, if you scardey cats out there don't feel persectuted every minute of your life... you make up threats to yourself.

Again, Bitch is still ok in America. Read your first amendment folks. Don't let blogger scare you based on false fears like the one presented here. Ok? Bitches, pricks, dicks, ho-sticks ... nobody is taking away your right to be as nasty as you wanna be.

Don Imus will not be jailed.
The revolution will not be televised. Your boys are not victims.

9:56 AM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger commoncents said...

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10:05 AM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Danny said...

The "Reverend" Al Sharpton was in Detroit yesterday, leading a march, against the use of the words "bitch" and "ho"!!!
Being that this is Detroit after all, theCity Council, led by the "hip=hop Mayor", might actually end up passing an anti bitch and ho resolution!!!
Wonder ho w they are going to enforce it though? Theyhavent been able to cut down on the use of the N-word, even though they had a ceremonial funeralfor it, complete with a nice coffinand pall-bearers, and a marching band!!

10:20 AM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Danny said...

Also, if the words "bitch" and "ho" are banned, how are we going to refer to Hillary Clinton or Rosie O'Donnell while in NYC?:):)

11:10 AM, August 08, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Smug, catty little trolls are worse than foaming-at-the-mouth lefty trolls.

11:55 AM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Nick said...

I have said this many times... but I will say it here as well. Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing because it gives biggots, racists, sexists, and others the ability to self identify themselves.

It's amazing how often, when you let people speak freely, that people are willing to say things that allow you to see them as who they are, so you can avoid them in the future.

By supressing free speech, even when hateful, we don't supress hateful thought. We merely supress our ability to see those who are hateful.

12:07 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

Also, if the words "bitch" and "ho" are banned, how are we going to refer to Hillary Clinton or Rosie O'Donnell while in NYC?:):)

11:10 AM, August 08, 2007


Bugs said...
Smug, catty little trolls are worse than foaming-at-the-mouth lefty trolls.


Oh bitch away Bugs.
It's your right!

And you still have it...
Fear not. helen misread the article. It didn't pass, no change in law. First Amendment=still secure. Don't let the ladies fears get to you.

And no, it's not dangerous to let your kids play outside. Lol @ the idea of a kids playing outside movie.

12:16 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Serket said...

Didn't Don Imus broadcast from NYC?

1:21 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Helen said...

Serket,

Yes.

1:28 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

But serket,
the law didn't pass.

So the "Cities that would jail Don Imus" label is clearly false.

(hmm... I imagine he'd have a first amendment defense well before any jail time, but then how do you hype a non-threat??)

2:29 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Unknown said...

Bitch isn't even the most offensive word. I know many more women who take offense to "cunt" than to "bitch"-- women who in certain contexts would be almost proud to be called a bitch, or think of it as a positive character trait, are still offended by the c word.

2:38 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

I'd rather be a bitch than a pussy, any day!

And you're right madeline:
The equivalent of prick is cunt.
And the equivalent of bitch is bastard, or s.o.b.

If you're going to plump for equal opportunity banning of bad words helen, at least get your lingo straight, eh? Better yet, don't go down that road at all, eh? First Amendment -- know it, respect it, fear not.

2:58 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Joe said...

The first amendment is bitchin'

Who the fuck uses the word bitch anyway? Unless you're talking about my mother-in-law, though being a ho bitch would be a step up for her.

5:09 PM, August 08, 2007  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did I mention mary in my comment about the smug, catty-sounding troll? Yet it instantly identified itself. Smart troll, eh?

5:33 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

6:26 PM, August 08, 2007  
Blogger Unknown said...

Mary, you are being rather rude.

3:28 PM, August 09, 2007  
Blogger Derve Swanson said...

Mary, you are being rather rude.

If you read my comment,
I was shooting for "right".

If you think calling somebody "rude" or a "bully" or a "troll" takes priority over being "right", well then, just sit back and enjoy the ride.

7:21 PM, August 09, 2007  
Blogger Unknown said...

I prefer to use the word "cunt" when I refer to a horrible person. Where I am from -- Australia -- the word "cunt" is used quite frequently by real men. Some Australians such as myself use it as a pronoun when we refer to other people, animals and general objects.

Example: If my shirt has a hole in it, I might say, "the cunt needs to be repaired".

I say the word "cunt" as least 20 or so times per day. Kevin "Bloody" Wilson, an Australian comedian/Country music singer, uses it a lot in his material.

Feminised men and snobby women don't like the word. It's a good reason to use the word as often as possible.

I don't use the word "bitch", as it is derogatory to female dogs.

7:51 AM, August 14, 2007  
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