Thursday, May 22, 2008

The Power of the Self-fulfilling Prophecy

If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.--W. I. Thomas


I am often discouraged when I read various right-leaning bloggers and pundits and see them mention over and over that the Republicans are doomed to lose this presidential election. If the Democrats want to feel this way and talk about what losers Republicans are, let them, but why add fuel to the fire? I understand that many Republicans are disgusted and angry with how the party has progressed over the years but joining in the despair will only lead to a self-fulfilling prophecy that will insure a loss come this November. And the media is picking up on this defeatist attitude and using it to make the Republicans look not only like losers, but self-sabotaging ones at that. For example, US News & World Report states:

Guess what? The Republican brand may be the losing one in 2008. Even some Republicans are openly talking about it in the face of significant losses in recent special elections....

Even a Republican veteran in Congress, Rep. Tom Davis of Virginia, said his party was in its worst condition since the Watergate scandal. The GOP lost 47 seats in the House in the first post-Watergate election.


Bloggers are also joining in the doom and gloom predictions. For example, Right Wing News has a bit of satire up by Frank J. (yes, I know it's satire, but the message is still a negative one):

It's pretty universally well known that the Republicans are in huge trouble as they've lost a number of special elections that I don't know much about but all the smart people say are very important. At least I know I don't care much more Republicans anymore; they lately just seem like a less mincing version of the Democrats. Frankly, things are so bad that for Republicans that if the Democrats don't get the White House and huge gains in the House and Senate, they should really all jump off a bridge for sucking that much. The new face of the Republican Party?


Believing that your party is a bunch of losers surely will not help it to improve it and may, in fact, hasten it's self-destruction--something some Democrats would be happy to see--but why play along while marching in step to the tune of Saul Alinsky? I was watching a show the other night on PBS's Frontline about a wonderful young boy who was being cyber-bullied by peers stating: "YOU ARE SUCH A LOSER." The boy believed it and went on to kill himself. He basically self-destructed by incorporating the negativity that others felt for him onto himself and felt that he was not worthy. Now, it seems that many right-leaning citizens feel the same. Instead of saying that there are still ideas and policies that the Republicans have that are worth saving-- (national security, low taxes, small government) they have deemed the whole party losers.

Perhaps some of the right-leaning bloggers and pundits who have such negative predictions for the future of the GOP should take a look at such books as The Power of Positive Thinking or Be Your Own Best Friend. As of right now their negativity and predictions of a loss this November might just cause enough people to give up on the party and make their predictions come true. Constructive criticism is one thing, wishing for defeat is another--make sure you know the difference. The more we put toxic memes out there that the GOP sucks, the more likely people are to believe it and make it come true.

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99 Comments:

Blogger Heather said...

Amen!

10:30 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Todd said...

I understand where you are coming from but your list of ideas "(national security, low taxes, small government)" are the ideas of the "old Republican party" not the current one. We barely held off amnesty, the current crop spend more money than a drunken sailor on leave and they all seem to have zero self control. We had a shot at being saved but Fred dropped out. Now we are just stuck with suck for four more years.

Truth be told, most of what is in congress today calling themselves Republican don't much act like it and deserve to be tossed out.

If that were to happen, we might could get a fresh start next go round with some real Republicans and by then most of the public should be so fed up with Nancy and co. that we make up for this year and then some.

10:46 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Heather said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:54 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

I have to echo Todd's comment. Huge losses in November could be just what the doctor ordered. Of course, we could also get a president and congress that want to emulate FDR and the 1930s Congress, thereby placing Republicans at an even greater disadvantage (how many of the New Deal programs were disbanded?).

When one looks at our options (doing the right thing and voting Libertarian or voting the least terrible candidates in November) it must be depressing. The future is going to suck for the foreseeable future and there's little that can be done about it because that's what the masses want.

10:57 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Sydney Carton said...

Dr. Helen,

There is no future.

Yesterday came the news that the UK authorized the creation of human-animal hybrids, which supposedly won't be implanted in any womb. Yeah, right. With that precedent set, our country is next. Many Americans would gladly support such a barbarity.

The American culture of doing things yourself has been replaced by taking anything you can get from anyone else. Government encourages that behavior because it needs a dependent client to elect its politicians.

The Government will not control its borders and doesn't take national security seriously. It encourages illegal immigrants because elites want cheap labor in all sectors of the economy, from programmers and accountants on H1-B visas, to farm labors and construction workers. It's really only a matter of time before the country is attacked again.

Americans and Western Europe are aborting themselves into oblivion, and are being replaced by immigrant groups wholly hostile to the Western way of life. A culture that doesn't have children is a culture that doesn't believe in securing the future. And to that end, the baby boomers have become the most selfish generation on the planet, spending their resources on themselves instead of their few children, frittering away all that they've earned in order so that by the time they're gone none of it is left. If they can't take it with them, their wealth shall go to nobody. And then, of course, they'll support monstrous medical expirements in order to keep them alive for seconds longer in order to stave off their fear of death.

Americans are increasingly content with the rule of their Judicial Masters, who decide issues that years ago would have been decided by communities. Americans are content to accept injustices like 80 year old grandmothers being strip searched at airports in some idiotic need to appear politically correct, while Muslims get to raise hell and file lawsuits against anyone questioning their right to act offensively on board a plane. Americans are content to continue discrimination against whites, and against men, because they are not favored groups despite the useless verbage in our Constitution that would prohibit such actions.

American culture is content to let its pre-pubescent girls prostitute themselves for boys by wearing clothing that even ACTUAL prostitutes probably wouldn't wear. American culture sees nothing wrong with telling a father that he's useless, in court proceedings that bash traditional marriage, in regulations and legislation which strip fathers of their rights upon divorce, and in culture which shows men on TV and movies to be indept simpletons who are useless without the aid of a women (unless such a man is homosexual).

There is no reversing these trends. They are symptoms of a diseased culture that no longer values objective truth and goodness, and instead values selfishness and relativism. It's not that the Republican party's fault that it has been caught up in this broader sweep of things, but it does mean that a mere attempt to "fix" the Republican party will prove worthless because the greater fight against the culture has already been lost.

11:08 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Matthew said...

The Republicans in Washington do not represent the views of conservative voters, not even close. You are right that we should not wish defeat on ourselves, but most of us view the current Republicans as others, not us. If Jeff Flake and the conservatives were in charge, we'd be fighting for their success.

Unless people want to take these guys out in the primaries, there's no way they don't lose.

11:23 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Joe said...

"The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn. The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it."

P.J. O'Rourke

11:34 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

@ Sydney

Are we a little depressed this morning?

Perhaps you ought to join in my little protest. If we can get enough people to refuse to have kids (why anyone would want to bring an innocent person into the world that we've all created (either by actively promoting the kind of culture and government that we have or by not doing enough to stop it) is beyond me) then I think we'll find ourselves driving the bus. The government, and the people who are dependent upon it, is a hostage to breeders (who, consequently, become hostages of the government). If enough people refuse to create new hostages the government and the people will be forced to adapt. Basic economics has to kick in eventually.

11:39 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

There's probably not much that can be added to what you just said sydney, to make it much clearer.

It is being denied by just about all camps. Those in favor of it, because they want the real agenda to stay hidden (even their minions aren't aware of what it truly is they are doing) and those who abhor what it means.

The only way to stop this train is to derail it. The sooner the better. Why do you think the left wants citizens unarmed, and our military powerless? Our military would never side with a left wing take over. Thank God.

With absolutely no opposition, where else does anyone think the left would truly have us go?

If I did not have children, I probably would not care. I know my time is short. But I have three children. And one of them has a babe of her own.

You know, Thomas Jefferson was well aware a little revolution every now and then is a necessary thing. The price of freedom is high.

11:49 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

Constructive criticism is one thing, wishing for defeat is another--make sure you know the difference. The more we put toxic memes out there that the GOP sucks, the more likely people are to believe it and make it come true.

Question: what do you think we should do when constructive criticism fails? Should we simply continue to elect the same kinds of people who we have been criticizing or show the party that we are unhappy with how they've been doing business? My idol uses this quote quite often when trying to motivate people to do something: talking about doing something is not the same as doing something. Well, talking about making the GOP return to its more conservative roots isn't the same as doing something to make it return to its more conservative roots. We've been telling them that we want national security, low taxes, smaller government and all of those other relative things and they haven't listen. Well, the people are getting tired of being ignored. Apparently, there are enough people out there who are willing to sacrifice their own values and well-being by jumping off the boat to show the crew that they mean business.

11:51 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger BobH said...

The only reason to vote for Republicans are Democrats, who are even worse. Let me repeat that: As bad as Republicans are, Democrats are even worse.

11:59 AM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Bugs said...

Parties have come and gone over the years. If the Republicans aren't worth saving, something else will come along to replace them. It will probably take a financial crisis and one extremely appealing third-party candidate to make this happen.

12:04 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

If the Republicans aren't worth saving, something else will come along to replace them.

Well, if history has anything to say about this, the people now in charge of the GOP will simply invade a third party (it already appears to be happening to the Libertarian Party) or take the name of a respectable part and change the platform to reflect their views. 'Whig', 'Republican', and 'Democrat' were all respectable names for parties until the socialists took over (it's easy to look at the history of those parties and see where and how that took place).

12:15 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

The caveat: If it is indeed some third party pretty boy who saves the day, let's all be careful he's not the anti-Christ, eh? Figuratively, if not literally.

When the devil shows up (remember, the last thing (s)he will be, is stupid) he's going to be the prettiest thing anybody ever saw. Red suits, horns, pitch forks and pointy tails will never get elected.

12:39 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

If it is indeed some third party pretty boy who saves the day, let's all be careful he's not the anti-Christ, eh?

The same thing could be said of a current front-runner...

12:58 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Sydney Carton said...

J. Bowen,

I'm not depressed today, but those thoughts of mine have been brewing for quite some time. It is clear to me that American culture is on the sliding slope to oblivion, just like the greatness of Rome eventually slid away. It might take 100 years, or maybe it'll take 20 with the technology that accelerates all trends today. We'll see.

The failure of the Republican party is a symptom of America's greater failure. While we are distracted by the increasing wizardry of our material excesses, we are losing more fundamental supports in our culture and the Republican party is being dragged down with America. Do you wonder why all our Republican politicians talk "family values" but are absolute scum? Aside from the timelessness of politicians being full of wicked men, the people no longer care if a President like Clinton is a serial adulterer. The people also no longer care about making decisions for themselves and are content to leave things to the Black Robed Judicial Masters. The people care about fulfilling their immediate gratifications and so they pass that vileness onto youths, and so the culture has learned to treat people as OBJECTS. Therefore, we get human-animal hybrids, abortion, (forced?) euthenasia, the denigration of fatherood, etc. We get a society treating workers like "human resources" who can be discarded for cheap immigrant labor. We get powerful government bureaucrats who can throw you in jail for saying how ridiculous it is you have to take off your shoes at an airport.

The Republican party cannot be fixed because it is infected with the same crass virus that has destroyed American culture.

1:04 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Larry J said...

The only reason to vote for Republicans are Democrats, who are even worse. Let me repeat that: As bad as Republicans are, Democrats are even worse.

While true, "Vote Republican because Democrats suck even worse" isn't exactly inspiring. It's kind of long for a bumper sticker.

I've been voting since 1976. Every election is billed as the most important in human history. Who knows, this time it might even be true. The problem is that the Republican leadership not only squandered the conservative legacy, they proved themselves as corrupt and bad as the Democrats. It's hard to believe them when they talk about how badly the Democrats will tax and spend given how poorly the Republicans governed over the past 8 years. They deserved to lose in 2006. Unless they get wise, they'll deserve to lose this year as well.

1:34 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Larry J and others who say throw in the towel,

My strategy is along the lines of Robert Heinlein who states:

"If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for...but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule, you will rarely go wrong."

1:54 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Todd said...

As Larry J. said, they do deserve to loose.

I can not see what is so hard about "no new taxes", reduce the size of government, hold the line on entitlements and protect the borders.

It is not like we ask them to perfect cold fusion or anything, just have a damn backbone and live up to your talking points.

I am tired of the Republican party treating me as a “given” that they don’t have to earn because they are “not as bad as the Democrats”. Well sorry, that is not good enough any more.

1:56 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger GawainsGhost said...

I am not a loser. There are certain truths I will not deny, certain values I will not compromise, and certain principles I will not concede. Because those truths, values and principles have allowed me to be a winner in the game of life.

I supported the Republican party for 25 years, beginning in 1980, the first year I was eligible to vote. I attended Ronald Reagan's 1984 campaign send off in Austin, participated in the campus debates at UT, and wrote poetry for the Texas Review in support of the cause.

Since that time I have worked for, supported and contributed to Republican candidates to give the GOP a majority in the House and Senate, and the Presidency.

What did the Republican party do with that majority? To say that they spent money like drunken sailors would be an insult to drunken sailors.

The Republican majority failed to rein in spending, failed to secure the border, failed to enforce the law, and gave a free pass to every illegal alien who waded across a river at the expense of the American taxpayer.

I'm done. There is absolutely no way I'm going to support or contribute to any candidate the Republican party puts forth. Once bitten, twice shy, that sort of thing.

I believe in freedom, responsibility, the rule of law, limited government, free people, free markets, and free enterprise. When the Republican party starts not only nominating but electing representives who espouse and actively work to enforce that agenda, then I'll start supporting and contributing to the GOP again.

Until such time, forget about it.

John McCain is not the candidate to put forward to earn my support.

Oh, well. There's an old saying. The Democrats are the corrupt party, and the Republicans are the stupid party.

Yeah. But at least the Democrats are up front about their corruption. You know what you're getting with them. The Republicans lie to and spit in the face of their base and then stab them in the back as soon as they're elected. Principled, they are not.

I'll never vote for another Republican again. I've never and have no intention of ever voting for a Democrat. So where does that leave me?

Nowhere it seems.

2:04 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger BobH said...

There is a way out of this, although neither Republican nor Democrat legislators would vote for it. Look up "Approval Voting" in Wikipedia. Now imagine that you are not forced to vote Republican in a close election to reduce the likelihood that the even-worse Democrats might win. Instead, if you are able to vote for all the conservative and/or libertarian candidates running (maybe even a stray Republican as well), thereby voting against Democrats and other loony lefties.

2:08 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Derek said...

If men define situations as not real, they can still be real in their consequences. -- B. Doherty

The above statement has prove applicable not only to family studies but also to politics.

Remember Dewey?

2:11 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Duck said...

Helen
There could be a benefit to the despair. For one, it may prompt right leaning voters to vote Republican out of fear of a Democratic dynasty. Fear is a great motivator.

Also, if the results are not as disastrous as expected, it could indicate weakness in the Democrat support.

A lot could change between now and November, but I think that gloom is an accurate reading of the situation for Republicans, in Congressional races at least. I have hopes for a McCain victory, at least because I think Americans are comfortable with divided government.

2:25 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Jeff said...

Oh hell no. I've worked hard to elect Republicans for over twenty years. I've spent valuable time and treasure. What happened when we got a Republican controlled Congress?

* Government got bigger.
* Spending went ever further out of control.
* Unfunded mandates multiplied.
* Domestic energy production dropped.
* Corruption charges against Republicans increased.
* Pork-barrel spending increased.
* H-1b increased.
* Corporate welfare increased.
* Entitlement spending increased.
* Nothing was done about illegal immigration. Nothing.

I'm a Republican, and I want the party to lose, and lose big. I want the RNC out on their ass, all the RINOs too.

I want failure to precipitate a long overdue restructuring. The Party is going down in flames, and good riddance to the RINO trash that caused it.

And yes, I am taking it personal. Twenty years of work, and the Republican party stabs me in the back. Oh hell no.

2:46 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Jeff said...

bobh wrote, The only reason to vote for Republicans are Democrats, who are even worse. Let me repeat that: As bad as Republicans are, Democrats are even worse.

Nope. I'm a Republican, but I've become convinced that's not true. Republicans want corporate welfare instead of personal welfare.

Republicans are in thrall to big business, while Democrats are in thrall to big Labor.

That's the only difference. Neither party is for small government, individual liberty, and the orderly rule of law. Both parties are ruled by rich special interests, and the people matter for shit.

Regrettably, at present, there is no difference between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party.

That's why Republican will definitely lose, and why they should lose.

2:52 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Why, yes, j.bowen, the same thing COULD be said of the current front runner..........

3:30 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

We see where we are going. We see what that could mean. It scares us.
We don't really know what the future holds, it scares us. We may actually need a brand new direction, a new way of doing things, of thinking. Now we are really scared.

The liberal left is quite happy in having our nation, our planet of nations, to go in the direction they wish to go. Regardless of how hard an individual may work, or study, or strive, - everyone will be equally poor, equally hungry, equally sick, equally without, and equally desperate enough to be willing to ride a rubber inner tube to whatever "America" will hopefully take this country's place when it's all over here.

Liberals can't get beyond their own heads. They feel the rest of the world will follow lock step with their way of thinking and utopia will at long last arrive.

Mankind has not changed. Another Paul Simon song just rolled across.

"Spare you heart. Everything put together sooner or later falls apart". But if one thinks it through, one eventually realizes that of course everything put together sooner or later falls apart. It has to.

4:21 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

Why should we care if the Republican Party wins or loses? McCain is barely more conservative than Clinton. He'd just continue the same basic policies we've had for the last 20 years: more pointless wars, more freedoms lost, and more debt. If you really want a socialist dictator-wannabe, then by all means continue to vote the Republican party line. If you want America and liberty back, then...well...good luck with that. You don't even have a horse in this race. It's time to do something new. I wish I knew what.

4:33 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

Obviously Heinlein was wrong on that point. We've been voting against for as long as I can remember, but we have still gone horribly wrong.

4:37 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger serket said...

Spell check your title. I like your point and I'll be voting for McCain and expect him to win. I think Clinton is correct that she has a better chance than Obama in close states. I also think McCain will pick up more independents and conservative Democrats.

Todd: If that were to happen, we might could get a fresh start next go round with some real Republicans and by then most of the public should be so fed up with Nancy and co. that we make up for this year and then some.

I don't think we should rely on Democrats to fail, we need to improve the Republican platform and candidates. I think Congress has the lowest approval rating in history and yet the Democrats are still expected to win.

5:11 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

Obviously, Heinlein was not wrong.

If you neither vote for something or against something, you are purposefully sidelining yourself and needs STFU. If you do not vote, you are a hypocrite to whine.

Those who suggest that people not vote for X because "X is not worthy" are simply working an agenda for side Y.

5:22 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Serket,

Thanks!

Oligonicella,

Good point.

5:53 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

B.S. Oli. Heinlein was dead wrong. Have we suffered for voting for the lesser of two evils or not? Have we suffered for voting against a slightly worse wrong or not? Absolutely, we have! It doesn't get much more black and white than that. If you vote for evil, you are saying, "Yes! I want evil." God given rights do not depend on votes. No man has the authority to take away what God has given. If you vote for McCain who promises to deny your rights, you deserve what you get. As for me, I refuse to consent to injustice. I refuse to vote for X, just because X might be a tiny bit less evil than Y.

5:54 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Psst, jay c, c'mere a minute, I need to talk to you...
bitch slap left side! bitch slap right side! punch to stomach! knee to groin! knee to groin again for good measure! raise up and over my head, throw down on pavement! Wipe hands on pants, walk away.

Now, anybody else in the freaking blog not gonna vote?

6:08 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

I'm confused. If one doesn't like what the Republicans or Democrats are offering why aren't people looking at candidates from other parties? Come November there are going to be more than 2 offerings.Take a look at the selection.

6:10 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

Heinlein also said that democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. The Republocrat choice is between three slightly different colored wolves. You seriously think that voting for McCain will actually gain you any tangible benefits at all? Are you completely freaking out of your minds??? Are you really that blind!? Go ahead and bare your throats, lick those boots, and rattle your chains.

No thanks. Some things aren't up for a vote. The sheep are armed in my house, and I'm not playing the same stupid game anymore.

Cham, do you really think any of those other people have a chance? McCain has worked hard to make sure they (and you!) don't get any meaningful say in how the country is run. I was a county chair for the LP for years. I campaigned, I demonstrated, I organized, I voted, and I continued to get less and less free. Democracy has failed. The founding fathers had that one right.

6:18 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Larry J said...

I'm a Republican, and I want the party to lose, and lose big. I want the RNC out on their ass, all the RINOs too.

I want failure to precipitate a long overdue restructuring. The Party is going down in flames, and good riddance to the RINO trash that caused it.


Jeff, I'd change one part of what you wrote. I'm a conservative more than I'm a Republican. When Reagan became a Republican, he said, "I didn't leave the Democrats. The Democrats left me."

For the past few years, the Republicans have left me. I'm strongly considering making it offical and changing my voter registration. It's gotten to the point that I'm coming to the realization that perhaps I'm the RINO. It appears that today the "real Republicans" are the ones like Snow and McCain.

bitch slap left side! bitch slap right side! punch to stomach! knee to groin! knee to groin again for good measure!

First of all, I wouldn't recommend you try it. You might not like the outcome.

Second, I didn't say I won't vote. I just may not vote for very many Republicans this time. I'll vote for conservatives. The rest like McCain, I'm strongly considering leaving blank. McCain has figuratively spit in this conservative's face for many years. I'm considering returning in kind.

A lot may change between now and November but that's my opinion as of the moment. If I do end up voting for McCain, it'll be with my nose firmly held. While I respect his military service, many of his actions while in the Senate make me want to puke.

6:23 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Democracy would be working just find if we could get the politicians out of the pockets of the corporations, lobbyists and special interest groups out. Those that fund the politicians and their campaigns are the ones that control the country.

Big Oil is loving them some Bush right now.

6:37 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Democracy didn't fail until you gave up. So it has only failed you. Or, you have failed it, rather.

Got any kids? Can they all walk, or all they still in strollers at any age?

How many times did you let your baby stand up and try to walk before you told him to give up?

Remember what Frank Zappa said. When it's you against the world, bet on the world.

I don't own a weapon, but I'll fight at your side for your right to have one.

Even if you take your family to Idaho to live in the woods, "it" will find you. I honestly don't believe you can have a house big enough to hold the munitions you would need to protect yourselves from "it".

I like solitude much more than most. I roll around in it during most opportunities. I'm a member of the "boxers shorts or less" media, to be honest. Only because I hate to do laundry. But I digress.

I, too, have little to no faith in mankind. So far, there is not a better alternative. What are your ideas? What do you see as better than this 222 year old social experiment? What other nation has had as many peaceful changes of party rule as this one?

If we didn't have corporations, we wouldn't have unions. That kind of sums up politics in this nation.

6:50 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Sorry, slow typer here. Last post was directed at jay c.

7:02 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Oh, and larry j, I'm not much of one for "humor alert!" or sarcasm on / sarcasm off, or any other blue lights and sirens to announce "Here comes a statement". Does he mean it or what?" I'm not running for office or anything.

But if I were King.......

7:19 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

Actually, you're right. Democracy didn't really fail, although it would have if we had ever tried it. The democracy that republocrats worship is just a facade designed to fool you into thinking you have some control. If you give people the power to vote away your God-given rights, then that is exactly what they will do. Especially if you keep telling them to do it again!

7:30 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

How many times did you hire someone to saw your baby's legs off before you started calling him a whiny loser for not walking? That's what you're doing by voting for Republocrats and then attacking people who refuse to cooperate with the lunacy.

7:32 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

How many times did you hire someone to saw your baby's legs off before you started calling him a whiny loser for not walking?

Very good point. Now go pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. ;)

7:44 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

OK, so I ask you again. What's better? If we last long enough, we may be able to move on to a true direct democracy, once "desk" and / or "lap" tops are in possession of all who are old enough to vote.
Of course, who would be able to work. We'd all be on line all the time writing , arguing over, and voting on things. Plus it would create other problems too. Anonymous voting would disappear, for instance.

Do you have a better "ic, "ocracy", or "ism"?

I could live alone in the woods and mountains and still come out and vote. I used to live in the hills, although not alone. I wish I were now, and I'd still come out and vote.

By the way, the sawing the baby's legs off thing didn't go over well. The response was kind of expected though. Wish you'd have picked a better analogy. I love analogies. I am thinking of one now.

8:04 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

I didn't expect it to go over well. Sometimes the truth is ugly, and all the eyes-screwed-shut-heel-clicking positive thinking in the world won't change it.

You'll never get freedom or liberty or justice from the Republican Party no matter how long you wait. Go ahead and vote for which saw you want them to use if you really think that's your only option.

9:13 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Sorry for the delay. I was watching a movie.

Anyway, and again, then what is your answer to this?

I mean, anyone can poke holes in anyone's ideas. You seem disenchanted, and wish to see it all tumble down. Is that true? And what would you replace it with? I am seriously interested.

10:06 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

If we last long enough, we may be able to move on to a true direct democracy

Let's hope it never comes to that...

11:05 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger Michael Lee said...

HL Mencken: Democracy is the theory that the people should get what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard. (paraphrase)

I'm voting for Obama, no matter what. At least he'll fail, while McCain will succeed, as he always has, in competently advancing "bipartisanship." Which means getting done what Obama wishes he could get done.

At least Obama is a decent, if naive, privileged and p-whipped guy.

Still, never underestimate the capacity of the Democrats to insert the shotgun in any orifice handy, and then to insert it in any orifice still in existence.

I predict McCain is the next president, but I won't vote for him just to vote against idiots.

11:25 PM, May 22, 2008  
Blogger William said...

I am amazed at the people who go around cluelessly oblivious to the unrest and anger in America today. Since one of America's most consistently successful prosecutors with a 100% success rate believes that our president should be prosecuted for mass murder, among other things, you might get a clue. Based on his track record, I'd say he's got an excellent case. He also supported McCain for president in 2000.

1:44 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

j. bowen, that was my point. I've seen a few members of a 300 family neighborhood break into fisticuffs over basically, the results of direct democracy, concerning a few bushes and trees and a sign. I can only imagine the results if the neighborhood was 24,000 miles in diameter. Maybe I do need to use the blue light and the flashing humor alert sign. No trees and bushes around the sign though. Oh, crap, are we going to fight over the bushes and trees too?

6:43 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Cham is right. There are many others one can vote for. jay c is right. They don't stand a chance at getting elected.

We all know democracy is not a spectator sport. To change the system so that all those who wish to run on whatever platform they wish to run on is "allowed", with equal exposure to the folks in order to tell their story, we will have to force it to happen. The status quo groups certainly have no interest in that. Neither does the media, as evidenced by what they wish to show. All three branches would have to be cleaned out, and the embedded bureaucrats would also have to be shown the door.

As this occurs, were it to really happen, our own military would have to pledge to be neutral in the decisions and outcome, yet stand at our borders and protect the nation from outside influence, or attack, or both, while the short term (half a normal life time?) chaos ensues.

What are the chances of that? Makes the woods and the mountains look mighty good, doesn't it?

7:04 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Br549: I think you underestimate the American people. When middleclass people can no longer pay their mortgages, their utility bills, buy food AND put gas in their car all that the same time with their middleclass income, they may collectively start looking at other political alternatives. But we have to get to that point first.

7:14 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

jay c --

You're just shilling for Dems. Fess up. I've not heard you saying people shouldn't vote Hillary or Obama. Why would that be?

You're argument also makes the bitter assumption that every choice in life leads to fruits and candy. Not so. Sometimes it's only to delay things so people can get a breath.

That's what Heinlein understood.

7:49 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

If you haven't heard me say people shouldn't vote for Dems, you haven't been listening. Republicans = Democrats. The only differences are cosmetic.

"You're argument also makes the bitter assumption that every choice in life leads to fruits and candy. Not so. Sometimes it's only to delay things so people can get a breath."

That's not my argument at all. My argument is that the Republicans have been trying to feed us that spoonful of feces and sugar for so long they've started to like the taste of it. There has been no delay, and the Republican Party doesn't want a delay. They don't want you to catch your breath. Bush and company has pushed this country downhill faster than the Dems even dreamed possible.

Here's what I'd like instead of the farce that the American public worships as democracy: The Rule of Law. I'm pretty sure that was the ideal when we started this grand experiment, that no court and no ruler and no popular vote could ever ignore the law or violate God-given rights. I wouldn't care who sat in the oval office if they respected the Constitution. Show me a Republican (or a Democrat) who says he respects the Constitution, and I'll show you a liar or a lunatic.

8:41 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Vox said...

Why? Because we WANT the current collection of fake republicans and false conservatives that today run and represent the Republican Party to lose! At least a Democratic victory preserves the possibility of an opposition. What, precisely, is the point of supporting a party that has repeatedly demonstrated that it has literally nothing in common with your principles?

10:18 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Vox,

Be careful what you wish for, it may just backfire. Giving the Democrats more power may mean a small chance of an opposition but more than likely, we will see the collectivism and socialism that the Democrats promote simply expand. I will not vote for that.

10:43 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Jonathan said...

Jeez, what a bunch of whiners and defeatists. (And probably poor prognosticators as well -- how many of the right-wing bloggers who are now assuming Republican defeat were previously predicting the triumph of Fred Thompson?)

Representative government is a pain in the ass. Large groups of voters often make foolish decisions. The candidates are often lousy. So what. It's always been this way in democratic countries. Vote for the least-bad candidates and move on. That, and continuing to argue for what one thinks is right, are all that most of us can do.

Outside of the narrow world of partisan politics, life in the modern USA, as compared to life in almost every other place and time, is amazingly good. And on balance it continues to get better despite the ineptitude and corruption of the political classes. The purveyors of negativity, while often right about particulars, are usually wrong about the big picture. There is much cause for optimism in the long run. Giving up on the game is a losing strategy.

11:05 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Vox said...

Giving the Democrats more power may mean a small chance of an opposition but more than likely, we will see the collectivism and socialism that the Democrats promote simply expand. I will not vote for that.

I concur; I will not either. The problem is that we will see the collectivism and socialism that the Democrats promote expanded regardless of whether we vote for McCain, Obama or Clinton. I don't care what party a candidate belongs to, if he supports expanding central state power, global sovereignty, or open migration, I will never vote for him.

If that means I don't vote or vote third party, so be it. I've certainly done it before. For, as others have already mentioned, a vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for evil.

11:19 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

I supported Paul, although I was never under any illusions that he might win. It's not a matter of supporting a lousy candidate. It's a matter of participating in a system that is thoroughly and irredemably corrupt from top to bottom. There are no half-way decent candidates for president. There are evil candidates and then there are the candidates who have absolutely no chance of winning.

You're right that life is pretty good in the USA, but it is definitely not getting better. It has been going downhill for some time and the Republicans have only accelerated that trend. They are just as much collectivists and socialists as the Dems.

There is no game to forfeit. It's already over. The scores were posted more than fifty years ago. The American people lost. You're still kicking the ball around pretending to play, when everyone else has already gone home.

11:19 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger gs said...

I'm in a rush today, so apologies if some of my comments have already been covered.

1. An opponent may be respected, but a betrayer is hated.

2. The GOP no longer bothers to even give lip service to limited government.

3. If the price of Republican corruption is being a minority party, that's a price the Trent-Lottish power structure is entirely willing to pay.

I could say much much more, but today is a busy day.

Btw I'm an independent whose attitude is soft libertarian. I used to be a Republican In All But Name, but no more.

11:38 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

When middleclass people can no longer pay their mortgages, their utility bills, buy food AND put gas in their car all that the same time with their middleclass income, they may collectively start looking at other political alternatives.

Someone else already predicted what those "other political alternatives" might be.

Let's face it, the middle class is already engaged in theft. I believe it is the top 40% of all tax payers who pay 100% of the taxes (I think it's the top 3% who pay about 30% of all taxes, but I may be wrong). The middle and poor classes have voted themselves benefits at the expense of others. All that is left is for them to go back to the days of taxing the rich at a rate of more than 90% like they did in the early 1900s.

11:52 AM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

The problem is that we will see the collectivism and socialism that the Democrats promote expanded regardless of whether we vote for McCain, Obama or Clinton.

Well, if history and economics have anything to say about socialism, our system is doomed to fail eventually. Why not vote in such a way as to end it sooner rather than later and give future generations a chance at something better?

12:02 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

I like beer
I shoot deer
Get used to it!

12:03 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger An Ordinary Man. said...

1. The United States is not now nor has it ever been a "democracy."

2. With all due respect, I don't believe that Dr. Helen is paying attention. Please see "Who Killed the Republican Party" at http://tippingpoint-watchman.blogspot.com/.

1:27 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Bugs said...

I was my own best friend until I ran off with the woman I loved. I haven't spoken to myself since.

1:27 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Daniel said...

I respectfully disagree with you Dr. H.

If anything today's Republican party has abandoned it's people. This isn't a case of the family leaving their father but the father leaving the family.

If the Right-wingers continue to support the party then they will just be supporting that problem not solving it. The people who are their will protect their own and the people seeking change will be stifled. How can you tow the party line when the line isn't what you believe in?

1:39 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Daniel,
First, thanks to you and everyone for keeping the conversation civil. I don't think anyone should toe the party line--since when do any of us agree even 80%? I don't agree with much of what the Republicans stand for--I lean libertarian. However, I agree with virtually nothing that the current crop of Dems do. I would rather vote for McCain with a C rating from the NRA than Obama or Clinton with an F. I will take a C over an F any day.

1:54 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Glenn W said...

I have been following the discussions here and on other conservative blogs with great interest. I am one of those conservatives (I only use the term because I haven't come up with a better one) who will not vote for McCain under any circumstances. Like many of the commenters, the first election I voted in was in 1980 when I voted for Ronald Reagan. I have been a consistent supporter of the Republican Party ever since and will vote Republican in November except that I will not vote for McCain.

A lot of you have misinterpreted the mood out there as a funk or low grade depression on the part of people like me. You could not be more wrong. The mood is much more akin to anger, the anger of being betrayed. I will not justify myself to you all and you will not be able to lay a guilt trip on me in order to intimidate me into voting for your candidate. If I vote for McCain then every evil he does (whether it be a lesser evil or not) I will feel complicit in. If you can go to sleep at night telling yourselves that you are a party to every bad decision that man will make since "it could have been a lot worse," then go for it. The time has come where I cannot justify looking the other way any longer.

And please, you all should be careful not to conflate "conservative" with "Republican." As for the national party, this quote from an American who could not get elected dog catcher in this day and age, sums up my feelings very well:

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom--go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!

Samuel Adams
August 1, 1776

2:46 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger jay c said...

Thanks, Glenn! I was just a little too lazy to look up the exact quote myself.

4:29 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

I'm glad this is a long weekend.

I've got a lot to think about all of a sudden. I may not be posting, but I will surely be reading this blog all weekend. I really want to know how everyone feels. I am really feeling betrayed by all politicians, and am becoming ashamed that I have been drifting away from my fellow countrymen. The joke's over. This is no longer a game.

I used to think that the quote from the old Pogo cartoon was just about right ("We have met the enemy, and they is us"). Perhaps not so, after all.

I have never understood why one would wish to become a modern day politician. Unfortunately, I think I do now. And I sure don't like it.

5:09 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Buckeye Tom said...

Dr. Helen,

First off, I usually agree with you, but I think you're off base with your self fulfilling prophecy argument.

From what I gather, you sometimes argue, because of cultural attitudes bias towards men, and boys being feminized in our schools, there is a developing man crisis (my words, not yours). Reading your posts about the subject, one might interrupt your position as one of “doom and gloom”. Having read your articles, some men/boys may be lead to believe the deck is stacked against them, and stop trying all together. Thus a self fulfilling prophecy.

Do I believe that this is occurring? Of course not. You are commenting on a growing trend that you believe should be addressed.

The same is true with conservatives and the Republican party. Conservatives see the growing trend that their views are being marginalized (similar to your position about men in general), and are speaking out against it (granted with a little more emotion than you use when discussing male bashing).

Some of your other posters have pointed out, that all efforts by the conservative base to get the party’s attention have failed. Nothing demonstrates the GOP’s deaf ears, more than 100 House and 35 Senate Republicans voting to over turn the president’s veto of the pork filled farm bill. Lobbying the Republicans hasn’t worked. Withholding campaign contributions hasn’t worked. The only option left to conservatives is the nuclear threat to sit out the election. The question is, when this fails, will conservatives follow through with the threat?

I haven’t see any conservative bloggers advocating turning out true conservative congressman. The conservative ire has been directed at the RINO’s. The “moderate” Republicans consistently side with their Democratic brethren, so sacrificing them is not all that terrible. You don’t have to keep the bath water, just because you’re fond of the baby.

I do agree with you on John McCain though. The War on Terror and the Supreme Court are important to me, so I’ll hold my nose and vote for him. But not all conservatives share my priorities.

Sometimes picking the lesser of two evils isn’t that attractive.. Some conservatives believe either way, the country is going to hell in a hand basket, metaphorically (I suppose biblically in some cases) speaking. The only difference is, with John McCain we’ll be taking the scenic route.

5:14 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

By the way, let's not forget what this "holiday weekend" is about. Many of those who have provided it for us will never be at any of the cookouts.

6:09 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger serket said...

Sydney: The American culture of doing things yourself has been replaced by taking anything you can get from anyone else.

Earlier this week I was reading an article about a Warren Buffett convention. None of the companies involved give free samples because Buffett doesn't believe in that.

It is clear to me that American culture is on the sliding slope to oblivion, just like the greatness of Rome eventually slid away.

I did a post on the book The 5000 Year Leap written in the early 1980s. In it the author says he thinks if Franklin saw us today he would think we are a setting sun. I think we are a special nation and could be a lone survivor if we could go back to a respect of the Constitution.

Matthew: Unless people want to take these guys out in the primaries, there's no way they don't lose.

Do the incumbents face primaries? I would love to see Hatch gone as he seems to encourage illegal immigration.

Joe: The Democrats are the party that says government will make you smarter, taller, richer, and remove the crabgrass on your lawn.

I can't understand why near majorities continue to believe this nonsense. Just wait and see what happens to gas prices once Democrats are in charge.

BobH: The Approval Voting sounds interesting, perhaps we could convince the GOP to implement it in all primaries. I would also like to see the Presidential primary start later than January.

6:11 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger pockosmum said...

"Having read your articles, some men/boys may be lead to believe the deck is stacked against them, and stop trying all together. Thus a self fulfilling prophecy.

Do I believe that this is occurring? Of course not. "

I couldn't disagree more, men and boys are indeed being marginalized. Family court is stacked against men, schools do penalize boys for normal childlike behavior. Commenting in something that *is* happening right in front of our faces is not creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's a warning against actual conditions that need action.

Stating something for which there is no real evidence (or which you really can't tell yet like the election outcome)as if it were fact and then acting on it is. I don't want to get too far off topic, but do look into the ways the law treats women as opposed to men.

I am an American citizen, but do not live in the US. Voting for me entails a 3-hour round trip to my embassy. It's been a while since I was moved to make that trip. I really do feel as if we have no choice. The last election? Kerry and Bush? What kind of a choice was that? Many probably voted for Bush out of dislike for Kerry, and what have we got now? I don't think we'd have been better off with Kerry though...

One unfortunate aspect of this election (and I am not sure why or how it occurred, I try to keep up but it's hard in a way not being in-country) is that 'libertarian' seems to have become synonymous with 'nut case', I see scathing references to this party on various sites. However, it is probably closer in my understanding, to what the government of the US was originally envisioned as. Free trade, limited involvement in other countries' affairs, power shared between the states and central government. We've veered pretty far from that, eh?

I'm afraid I have no brilliant ideas...I feel frustrated and stymied every election, that the choices we have are so limited, and it is essentially a 'lesser of two evils' choice.

I don't think sydney is overly pessimistic, not at all, I agree.

7:19 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Mark said...

"Earlier this week I was reading an article about a Warren Buffett convention. None of the companies involved give free samples because Buffett doesn't believe in that."

Berkshire Hathaway owns Sees (the chocolate stores). Sees gives away free samples (it can be hard to escape a store without one!).

-Mark Roulo

7:24 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

jay c --

"If you haven't heard me say people shouldn't vote for Dems, you haven't been listening. Republicans = Democrats. The only differences are cosmetic."

Not the same as you're saying "Don't vote for Hillary or Obama".

Give it a try.

9:50 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger Buckeye Tom said...

pockosmum said...

"Stating something for which there is no real evidence (or which you really can't tell yet like the election outcome)as if it were fact and then acting on it is. I don't want to get too far off topic, but do look into the ways the law treats women as opposed to men."

Pockosmum,

There is real evidence that the Republican Party has abandoned the principles of most consevatives. Bloated spending, the Gang of 14 derailing conservative judges, and lack of illegal immigration enforcement, just as a few examples, have shown that the Republican Party is not intersted in the base. We don't need to see the election results to know that.

But like I said, I haven't seen any conservative bloggers say throw them all out. They just want the "moderate" Republicans gone. In the eyes of conservatives, when the Republican Party runs countless "moderates", the conservative movement has already lost, even before the election. This is not a self fulfilling prophecy, it's a fact. "Moderates" are not interested in pushing the conservative agenda.

Also, I wasn't suggesting Dr. Helen was wrong about male bashing. I even said I didn't think her posts would become a self fulfilling prophecy. She has legitimate concerns about society's attitude towards men, and should raise her concerns.

The point I was making is, she is concern about men being marginalized, and little boys being feminized. That could certainly look like a "doom and gloom" scenario from an outsider's perspective. Does anyone really foresee a world where men don't matter? If you do, tell me how that isn't "doom and gloom".

Conservatives are concerned they are being marginalized and are protesting. Anyone without a conservative point of view, could see it as "doom and gloom" from conservatives. But the conservatives are just trying to be heard.

10:18 PM, May 23, 2008  
Blogger pockosmum said...

Thank you, I see what you were saying more clearly.

2:34 AM, May 24, 2008  
Blogger retireniwnelgyroc said...

Rather than not voting, why not look to support candidates somewhere else, even if they are not in your district, city, state, etc.,?

How else do you build up the strength of the party as a whole? Tell your no-good local politicians that your sending your support and campaign donations to people who support your ideals and that you‘ll continue to do that sort of thing until things change.

I mean if you really believe in something support it anywhere you can.

5:22 AM, May 24, 2008  
Blogger retireniwnelgyroc said...

And I'll add, you can't vote for these candidates obviously, I didn't mean that. But that doesn't mean you have to do nothing at all.

5:31 AM, May 24, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Except for me, because I can't sit still long enough, I wish, at this time, to modify a statement made by Bill Buckley, Jr., being:

"I would rather be ruled by the first 100 names in the phone book, than by the faculty of Harvard."

The modified version:

"I would rather be ruled by those who post on this blog, than by the faculty of Harvard."

I'm not a scholar. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that. But my vote counts just as much as anyone's. The Constitution of the United States is one of the best pieces of work that has ever been written. Time to get back to it. It's easy to get your hands on. One can google it. I would suggest, for grins, one read the declaration at the same time. You know, a refresher.

By the way, reading the latest headlines sure seems to prove a point I have thought for a very long time. Hillary Clinton is crazy as a loon. The stress seems to be bringing that out. Imagine what could happen, considering the incredible amount of stress a President is exposed to almost daily. I wonder how her constituents are feeling.

You know, I live in Virginia. The last thing I would do is move to New York, or any other state, and run for office to win. What the hell do I really know about their needs?
I am still wondering what the hell the people of New York were thinking, electing a person who didn't know a damned thing about their needs. She has been using the top of their heads as a stepping stone. No more. Wait, is that a "duh"?

9:40 AM, May 24, 2008  
Blogger serket said...

J. Bowen: Someone else already predicted what those "other political alternatives" might be.

Thanks for the quote from John Adams, we seem to be heading toward this: Debts would be abolished first; taxes laid heavy on the rich, and not at all on the others; and at last a downright equal division of every thing be demanded, and voted.

An Ordinary Man: You lost me at: It finds itself saddled with a presumptive presidential nominee who has been spectacularly wrong on virtually every issue throughout his long Senatorial career.

If you actually look at his record he has agreed with conservatives 82% of the time, Hillary and Obama are less than 8%. For 2006 he was at 65% and in 2007 he was at 80% which is right-wing compared to Hillary (2006-8%, 2007-0%) or Obama (2006-8%, 2007-7%). You can also view the issues that were rated.

BR549: I have never understood why one would wish to become a modern day politician. Unfortunately, I think I do now. And I sure don't like it.

I have thought about doing it because most of the current ones seem oblivious to reality. Maybe by the time I am old enough I'll have enough confidence for public speeches.

I would suggest, for grins, one read the declaration at the same time. You know, a refresher.

Think of our current politicians as a metaphor for King George III.

Mark: Sees gives away free samples

Perhaps it only applies at the convention.

2:17 PM, May 27, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Just imagine everyone is in their underwear, serket. It worked for me until I got used to it. But my largest groups have been perhaps 200. All I talk about are technical things that I have been involved with for 35 years - so I know the material. Imagining some I've seen, being in their underwear, is plumb scary.

If you do pursue politics, good luck, and good on ya!

4:36 PM, May 27, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

I know I can't shut up, serket. But one other thing. I don't think for one five seconds any politician is oblivious to reality. I do think all politicians are trying to make enough people happy to get, and stay, elected. And I do think that all politicians are perpetrating a myth. And the expense is always paid for by we, the people. Try to get some face time with a politician, once (s)he realizes you don't have gobs of money to give. It happened to my brother in law with Gore. He looked passed him and through him, drew his hand away, and walked right around him to the next one in line.

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