Tuesday, November 18, 2008

Speak Up!

I read with interest this good advice from Ted Nugent on speaking up in California and the rest of the country:

You don't need tough love in America, you need tougher love. Around the water cooler, at the church, at school. At the work place, at the picnic, and the bowling alley. You should be pounding the desk with your fist, raising hell, and take this beautiful state back from the pimps, and the whores, and the welfare brats, and the gang-bangers who seems to have all the rights in the world while the good people, the productive, law abiding people don't have jack squat -- and I think I am going to throw up.


So many people who do not support Barack Obama and are downright sick of the creeping socialism in our country are not speaking up. It is imperative to do so, even in small ways. The other day, I was at a drugstore and the clerk was talking to what looked like a Baby Boomer who was discussing how he voted for Obama. They both scoffed that not many in Tennessee voted for him, "what do you expect?" said the older guy, "this is Tennessee we're talking about." They both chuckled in agreement. I looked at the clerk and said in a loud voice, "So what you're saying is those of us here in Tennessee who voted for McCain are rednecks, is that right?!!!!" There were several people milling around in line at this point and the clerk turned red and stammered, "No, ma'am," and went on to give some lame explanation about what he meant. But I knew I had him. He was visibly shaken and I hope the next time he decides to diss Tennesseans while at work, he'll think twice.

Please remember that most people are cowards, if you speak up, they will often back down or stammer. Too many times, we let liberals get away with making fun of Republicans and those of us who do not agree with them politically. This needs to stop and the only way to do it is to speak up in the classrooms, public and at work. Remember that we are 56 million strong--those of us who did not vote for Obama. We are hardly alone.

Labels:

166 Comments:

Blogger Jason said...

Shhh! They'll hear you! You'll get us ALL in trouble!

7:27 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Jason,

Tough, they can't get us all.

7:29 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Perhaps those of us here in the fake America were more than a little insulted to hear that real America only occurs in rural areas. The guilty are in both parties.

7:41 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Cham,

The difference is that our educational systems and the media pump out anti-Republican drivel on a daily basis. This gives license to those who are liberal to berate others or try to shut others down. Even Tennessee schools play Channel one, a PC sattelite tv show that feeds students liberal politics. Because of the one-sidedness of the media and schools, people on the right feel afraid to speak up. FIRE --who deals with academic cases of infringement of free speech has many more cases of right-leaning teachers and students having their rights infringed than those on the left. It's just a fact.

7:49 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger javadoug said...

We should all be like The Saint, a.k.a. Simon Templar.
We should coyly smile, while giving exactly the kind of good natured response as described by Dr. Helen. Use humor to prod your liberal friends in the belly.

7:50 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Cappy said...

Quit picking on Barney Fyfe, you big bully!

8:04 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger smitty1e said...

Here is your alternative.
Silence is a sin of omission.

8:13 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger javadoug said...

Almost every county in Western Pennsylvania voted for McCain (except for Allegheny County, where Pittsburgh is located). I'd say that Western PA is generally more like Tennessee than it is to the Eastern side of our state. If only we could break free and form our own state, we'd have two more conservative Senators. I travel to TN all the time, and enjoy that way more than the east coast. Especially when I speak up (which I do quite often, especially with email and blogs). But I'm sure all my acquaintances are probably sick of my emails by now ;-)) But to me, the truth is more important.

8:16 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Trust said...

The results of the survey at this site are both amusing and scary:

http://www.howobamagotelected.com/

8:19 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger flambeaux said...

Sorry but Sweaty Teddy should take a lower profile approach. I realize that's his style, but the over the top thing does not help. He's very good at preaching to the choir, but I doubt he has ever changed any liberal's mind.

8:26 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Joan of Argghh! said...

Yeah, all the "equivalency" crap that Obama supporters are trying to foist on me doesn't work, either.

They whine that they're being called un-nice things by the Republicans. It is to laugh. They are very, very young and not to blame. They just haven't lived through as many years of vilification and truly nasty name-calling, character assination (selfish! racist! elitist!) as have we. Plus, they've grown up in the PC era of public school indoctrination of lets-get-along and be nice games. They may be surprised to read a bit of history or even the dictionary.

The word "fascist" has been flung at Republicans for decades. I do not think it means what the Left wants it to mean.

8:26 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Joan of Argghh! said...

It could be worse. Political discourse in our country used to involve hot tar, feathers, and a rail.

Ted's a pussycat by comparison.

8:29 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Marbel said...

Speaking up is not so easy us raised to "be nice" and "don't get in people's face" etc. But it's getting easier as those on the left get more strident and annoying.

It can be funny, though, to watch a liberal get on a rant about something and have everyone around her just shut up. Like, a woman going on about the evil Boy Scouts in a group of Scout moms. She finds herself talking to no one very quickly. But we are still oh so polite. Our grandmas would not find fault with our behavior.

9:03 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

"Sorry but Sweaty Teddy should take a lower profile approach."

I am not sure it is in his repertoire to do so!

Trey

9:13 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger I R A Darth Aggie said...

Totally off-topic, but I found it sad, amusing and thought provoking at the same time:

http://www.city-journal.org/2008/18_4_darwinist_dating.html

9:27 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

IRA darth aggie,

I read the article earlier, it's the follow up Hymowitz did for on another article, "Child man in the Promised Land." I will have to blog about it at some point!

10:00 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger GawainsGhost said...

Well, I think it's best to avoid confrontation in today's highly charged political environment. I mean, things could easily get out of hand.

I remember once, about 18 years ago, when I flew out to California to visit and comfort my friend after his divorce. He lived in San Jose, the heart of Silicon Valley, and worked as a systems analyst. We were sitting in this coffee shop, planning the day's excursion, surrounded by geeks. And, thinking it would be funny, I said out loud, "I like Bill Gates." Damn near started a riot.

This is what I'm talking about. Just look at what's going on in California with these savage assaults on supporters of Proposition 8. A lot of these loons on the left cannot control their anger and often resort to vicious smears and sometimes violence.

Standing on principle is one thing, playing a lose-lose game quite another. It's better to choose your battles carefully, forget the squirmishes and concentrate on winning the war.

That said, I don't take lip from anybody, especially not from some babbling idiot communist. My favorite retort to these clowns is, "You want to pretend to tell me what I think now, boy? You don't have the intellectual capacity." That usually shuts them up.

Finally, I could not and did not vote for McCain. The man is the most execrable candidate the Republican party has ever fielded. He's made an entire career out of criticizing conservatives and making deals with liberals, so he's no friend of mine.

Look at the facts. Upset by losing to Bush in the primaries, McCain distracted the new administration during the transition period in 2000 by pushing for campaign finance reform, a failed piece of legislation which ulitimately allowed George Soros to fund the takeover of the Democratic party by radical leftists and the loss of the Republican majority in both houses of Congress and the Presidency. Smart move that one.

Upset at conservative "nativists," he pushed hard for comprehensive immigration reform, in other words, the surrender of the sovereignty of the United States. That ultimately failed, thank God, but you know he's going to be pushing hard for it again, now that his real friends, the Democrats, are in power.

McCain ran an incompetent and erratic campaign. If not for the selection of Sarah Palin, he would have lost by at least 20 points. He failed to demonstrate even a rudimentary understanding of or any interest in the most important issue--the economy--and in a stunning display of ineptitude, he postponed his campaign, tried to postpone the second debate and rushed back to Washington in a failed attempt to demonstrate leadership when the horrid and flawed bail-out bill was being considered. He was rebuffed, ulimately voted for an even more horrid and flawed bail-out bill, then meekly showed up for the debate, looking as impotent as he is inept.

Then, when the conservative base, understandably, didn't go to the mats for him and hand him the Presidency he so desperately craved, he allowed his campaign staffers to anonymously trash and ridicule Sarah Palin, the lone conservative in the race.

Now, he's making deals with Obama, in the hope of salvaging his flawed image as a "Maverick." What he is is a buffoon and a traitor to the conservative cause.

This is a man without honor, principle or class. You couldn't pay me to defend him. Not that I have anything good to say about Obama, you understand, but that I have nothing good to say about McCain. I'm glad he lost and wish he would just go away.

10:07 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger nathan said...

take a moment and read through all the comments and count the number of times there is name-calling...will tell you something. Or should.

11:38 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Snowed In said...

And, thinking it would be funny, I said out loud, "I like Bill Gates." Damn near started a riot.

Well, I thought it was funny.

11:55 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Sorry but Sweaty Teddy should take a lower profile approach.

Sorry, but conservatives need to quit allowing the left to use verbally bullying in their attenpts to control discourse and thus frame the arguements. Time to get in their faces about their cultural bigotries and control freak attitudes, which are every bit as obnoxious and offensive to individual liberty as any blue nose religious moralizer.

11:58 AM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Too many republicans / conservatives stayed home on election day. They bought the drivel, made it a self fulfilling prophecy.

And yes, McCain was a lousy choice. I would never have placed him where he was. Sarah Palin is being trashed to this day. Proof she scares them. Proof she was a good choice.

It doesn't please me to see an angry gay man slap a cross out of an old lady's hands and stomp on it. I'd have caused a riot if I were there, possibly. Because my first response (although it was on TV) was to take a swing. The guy was young, early thirties perhaps. The lady was probably staring at 80. Pissed, not that he was gay, but that he overpowered a defenseless old lady, who had as much right to be there as he. And to be honest, stomping on a cross makes me madder than stomping on the flag, which makes me mad enough.

I am beginning to believe the republican side (in D.C.) didn't really want to win this one. And you know, there may be a method to their madness, as things unfold.

12:47 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

GG wrote: Finally, I could not and did not vote for McCain.

I understand. Governor Palin was enough to get me to vote for McCain, but she was JUST enough to keep me from voting for Allen Keyes.

Trey

12:56 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger DADvocate said...

conservatives need to quit allowing the left to use verbally bullying in their attenpts to control discourse and thus frame the arguements. Time to get in their faces about their cultural bigotries and control freak attitudes, which are every bit as obnoxious and offensive to individual liberty as any blue nose religious moralizer.

Well put. For the third or fourth year in a row, my liberal, control freak sister has come up with some idea of how the family should celebrate Christmas. All the while she professes to not be a Christian. Why doesn't she just say she's not celebrating Christmas and leave the rest of us alone? Can't do it, everything has to be her way.

2:02 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Zerosumgame said...

Dr. Helen:

If you speak up like that here in the People's Republic of New Jersey, you will likely:

a) Lose your job,
b) Have your house egged or stoned,
c) Get the cr*p beaten out of you,
d) Have hit pieces run on you by the local Marxist rag, er, I mean newspaper,

and to top it all off:

e) Have somebody file a lawsuit against you for defamation or pain and suffering -- with a sympathetic court system (to the plaintiff) deciding in their favor.

2:16 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger BarryD said...

dadvocate --

Team America wisdom: "malignant narcissism."

3:11 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger flambeaux said...

"Sorry, but conservatives need to quit allowing the left to use verbally bullying in their attenpts to control discourse and thus frame the arguements."

I agree with you. But normally when I see Nugent he is behaving like a lunatic. That only serves to confirm the prejudices of people who think that anyone who hunts or owns a gun or doesn't vote Democrat must be insane. It's not just unproductive, it's counterproductive.

3:25 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Joan of Argghh! said...

Sorry Nathan, a roll call is not the same as name-calling.

3:26 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Dr, Ellen said...

If I try to make my flavor of sense when surrounded by leftists - well, I get so tired of being accused of blending puppies!

Trouble is, saying you'll buy everybody a pony always goes over better than pointing out the horse-apple problem.

4:36 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger nathan said...

a roll call is not a name calling but as I have said: most comments here filled with name calling and not roll calling. changibng terms does not change things.

4:45 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Nathan,

If the comments here are your version of name calling, I would hate to see how you react when people really call names.

4:52 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Your turn nathan? Sheesh, fred didn't last long at all.

This is way too funny. The normally unhinged lefties are now attempting to be the Emily Posts of the blogs.

6:42 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger David said...

Here in Seattle we're plagued with kids with clipboards hoping to pin you down in conversation for a minute and get you to sign a petition or contribute to a cause.

I usually cause them a moment of cognitive dissonance as follows:

Collecting for ACLU? No money for you until you support the second amendment, from which all our other rights flow.

Collecting for Greenpeace? No money for you until you support clean nuclear power.

Etc. I doubt it makes any impact on the young brainwashed kids I see, but ... you never know.

6:46 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger smith kaich jones said...

I have a small, teeny art blog on which I don't allow political talk. That said, I comment on other's artblogs who do talk politics, and I gotta tell ya - you need to develop tough skin. I am always polite, but it doesn't matter. I have lost readers from my little place just from commenting on others' sites. Nonetheless, I just can't keep silent all the time. It's what they want us to do, and I refuse to buy into that. In the meantime, I just ask myself "What would Sarah Palin do?" and soldier on.

6:56 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger inna said...

Down here in Texas and Louisiana there is a nice little saying --"You poor Dear."

It ain't exactly what the listener might think either. They think the one uttering the saying is agreeing with them which is far from the truth. 'You poor Dear' actually means -- 'Shut the hell up you are embarrassing yourself!'.

Its not proper to get in somebody's face unless you are rustlin a man's cattle or a man's wife. Usually what's in your face is the end of a pair of double barrels. Otherwise its 'You poor Dear Liberal.'

7:05 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger BJM said...

flambeaux said...

Sorry but Sweaty Teddy should take a lower profile approach.... but I doubt he has ever changed any liberal's mind.


You miss the point entirely, it's not about changing minds, but to speak one's own. We conservatives are fed up with being bullied in public. Politeness is seen by liberals as either permission or weakness. It's time to push back.

7:10 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Lexington Green said...

"...those of us who did not vote for Obama."

Correction: Those of us who voted AGAINST Obama.

7:16 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

nathan --

"... a roll call is not a name calling but as I have said: most comments here filled with name calling and not roll calling ..."

A bland assertion on your part does not constitute the truth. Why not perform the act of tabulation yourself and post the results? Then, someone could fact check your assertion -- uh, result.

7:33 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Tom Spaulding said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

7:35 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Tom Spaulding said...

Perhaps those of us here in the fake America were more than a little insulted to hear that real America only occurs in rural areas. The guilty are in both parties.

What? If you are from the "other" party, don't you have a hell of a lot of apologizing to do to us, the conservatives? Haven't we listened to your vicious anti-Bush crap for years? And you get your feelings hurt because Sarah Palin called Middle Americans "real" as in "people who believe in limited Government, capitalism and gun ownership"...but to you, if someone else - one of those people - is described as real, then somehow you must be fake. How telling.

7:40 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger paul a'barge said...

They can't get us all but they can and do get some of us. Only a fool would speak up when it would cost him or her a job or endanger the quality of life of their children or the safety of their homes.

Think of Joe the Plumber. These people (Obamacrats) are dangerous. They have no limits and no compulsion about engaging in evil behavior.

It's great for Ted to speak out. The rest of us, maybe not so much.

7:54 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger 5kidsnadog said...

I just found you guys, so if I'm violating a rule or something, I apologize, but thought this was on topic -- my sister and I were discussing our pro-life stance, and how we need to just start SAYING what we believe in a calm, rational, thoughtful and straightforward way. So she e-mailed me with a little anecdote from her day:
"I used it on a crunchy chewy chick at Whole Foods who was extolling the virtues of veganism and how cruel we are to animals and I asked "well, how nice, I assume you are Pro life then aren't you?" I told her how the hypocrisy is so rampant and how nice it was to meet someone who not only cared for animals, but humans too. Her face just fell, and she looked so confused, and she stammered and said, "Ah, well, ah, yeah, of course." HAH< got ya!"
Maybe it didn't convert the crunchy granola at Whole Foods, but maybe one day the crunchy will realize that the uneasy feeling she has is the cognitive dissonance that ensues when one tries to follow diverging logic as a lifestyle.

8:09 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger bobby said...

"Sweaty Teddy should take a lower profile approach . . . He's very good at preaching to the choir, but I doubt he has ever changed any liberal's mind."
- - - -

Honestly, I don't think he was speaking to liberals at all.

8:34 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger bobby said...

" . . . who was extolling the virtues of veganism and how cruel we are to animals . . . "
- - -

Ask them if they've ever heard the highly amplified digital radon-burst tapes that pick up how carrots and potatos exude energy waves (in the form of subsonic sounds) that almost perfectly match the same waves put out by human babies who are experiencing extreme pain or fear.

Walk away muttering how you've never been able to eat a carrot again since you heard those tapes, but they're hard to find now since Big Grocers "bought" the rights to them and then put them away somewhere.

Good times . . .

8:41 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger El Duderino said...

The next time you hear a clerk says something so narrow minded and stereotypical you should just haul off and spit tobacco juice into his eyes. That'll learn him.

9:00 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger auntulna said...

Question O-thority!

9:00 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Papa Ray said...

"Only a fool would speak up when it would cost him or her a job or endanger the quality of life of their children or the safety of their homes.
"


Well, as they say where I come from--"Bullshit".

What you just said is a big part of the problem. This "Silent Majority" crap has got to stop...and stop NOW.

I'm willing to defend my rights, my beliefs and my way of life with my life and my family will just have to get tough along with me. Which they do and they are.

This crap about worrying about losing your job or pissing someone off where they try and harm you or yours is not the way of any of the people I know, nor will it ever be.

There is always other jobs and danger to you and yours can be delt with either by yourself or the cops.

But once somebody takes your dignity and your honor there is no recourse until you get it back.

It is time to get real and its time to speak up.

Grow a pair.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

9:04 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

My feelings were not hurt at all when Ms. Palin insulted everyone who didn't live in a rural area. I knew that statement was going to be final straw the Republican Party for the elections of 2008. I was jumping for joy. Keep up with the negativity folks, go for it.

9:41 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger JohnC said...

I'm with you Papa Ray, but I've got a child to protect. And if you think they wouldn't.... Frankly, with liberals/leftists, the young and weak are their first targets.

As a single father I keep my head way down in the weeds because I've already experienced what the school system can do to my daughter if I say/do anything contrary to their belief systems: Politics, guns, environmentalism, the military, war, take your pick. She's learned to watch what she says too.

Out in public, by myself, among people who don't know me or my kid, that's something else. While purchasing a Calvin and Hobbes book at a large chain bookseller the clerk commented that the author seemed to understand children so well, and "He's a man!!" I loudly noted that men have actually been kids themselves and also raised quite a few of them. A shocked silence followed from the female sales clerk, until a woman behind me noted "You're right, that was a very sexist thing to say."

As a parent, I don't want to be responsible for my daughter losing friends or being hassled by teachers or administrators.

9:47 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Stephanie said...

As a parent, I don't want to be responsible

Says it all. Oh, I know I'm a harsh bitch, but if that is the atmosphere you choose to raise kids in, I'm not surprised you abbrogate your responsibilities and choose rationalizations doing so.

Move, get a life and quit living under the thumb of others.

9:54 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Koblog said...

An escapee from the former East Germany said we totally misunderstood how power was exercised under totalitarianism.

He said the authorities would not throw people in prison. They simply made you unemployable.

This is what we have today in the U.S.

We were commanded on a recent company-produced poster in the hallway to "Celebrate Gay Lesbian Transgender Week!"

What happens if I don't obey and verbally refuse to "celebrate" it?

"Comrade, we simply cannot have this thinking at our company."

9:58 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Marbel said...

As a parent, I don't want to be responsible for my daughter losing friends or being hassled by teachers or administrators.

Wouldn't you rather your kid lost a pseudo-friend than be afraid to be herself?

Public school teachers and administrators are public employees and should be hassled themselves if they are giving students trouble for having unorthodox opinions.

10:07 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger RebeccaH said...

Today I watched part of my husband's favorite show which trashed the state of Virginia and their views on gun ownership and capital punishment: "Hey, this is Virginia after all." (Okay, it was "Boston Legal", and thank God it's their last season) It made me so mad, I had to leave the room. I'm through putting up with this kind of smug snobbery, so thanks, Dr. Helen, for the affirmation.

10:40 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

The difference is that our educational systems and the media pump out anti-Republican drivel on a daily basis.

Phil Gramm was partly correct but he got the group wrong:

Conservatives are a nation of whiners.

10:42 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

And you get your feelings hurt because Sarah Palin called Middle Americans "real" as in "people who believe in limited Government

People who really believe in limited government don't support unchecked wiretapping, torture and the elimination of Habeas Corpus.

10:44 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Bryan Lovely said...

Just after the election, I got tired of keeping my libertarian/conservative views to myself among all my knee-jerk liberal Seattle friends and started a blog. Lots of them actually read it -- maybe when I become a better writer it'll do them some good.

10:56 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Julie said...

I agree with you Helen, and I have been thinking about this a great deal. I live in an area of the country that I describe as an "echo chamber" politically - there are so many liberals here and most of what anyone hears are their own viewpoints parroted back at them by different people using slightly different terminology. What happens, I think, is people get so used to hearing only slight variations of their own opinions they begin to think everyone thinks like they do, and they get ruder and more righteous in their expression with no one there to challenge them, and ultimately unable to actually defend why they think the way they do because their opinions are actually common "wisdom". When you challenge them they are shocked into silence. The thing I love most about it is they're all so convinced that they "think outside the box."

I was working with this guy in my office on some web development project, and we were testing a script that we programmed to output the phrase "blah blah blah" so we could quickly see if it worked. He adopted a conspiratorial tone and remarked that the script "sounded like Sarah Palin." Well, I laid into him. I wasn't mean, I just asked him how intelligent Obama sounded when he stated he had been to "all 57 states" or any of the other gaffes he has made. It was a simple and effective object lesson. I went on to ask him how he thought a person as stupid, inexperienced and clueless as the media made Palin out to be could have an 80% approval rating while managing an 11 billion dollar budget and nearly 30,000 employees. "Disagree with her all you want," I told him, "but I'm sick of the put downs and personal attacks."

After listening to all the disgraceful, pre-pubescent temper tantrums these people have been throwing for the past 8 years about George Bush I'm just done. I don't like everything that man has done to be sure, but I'm just beyond letting ANYTHING go anymore. I'm not looking for confrontations, but I'm not backing down in the interest of maintaining peace and harmony. And if it makes my co-workers or friends uncomfortable because they can't get away with parroting their well-worn talking points with me, fine.

11:05 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

JULIE -

Why did Caribou Barbie LIE repeatedly about Troopergate?

11:09 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Your Correspondent said...

Well, Mr. J., that comment certainly cements Julie's post.
Thank you for adding clarity.
Back to the original concept:
We live in the Chicago area and both of us frequently have to work in the city proper.
You'd assume the Obama religion to be strong here and indeed it is, but there are still many, many Chicagoans who are familiar with the meaning of the term "Richie sent him." Who are aware that this county is the most corrupt geopolitical unit in the country and know that Obama got where he is via fix; in fact, if the presidential election was indeed clean, and an argument could be made over the campaign financing deceit, it was the first contested election Obama has won.
It's actually becoming easier to spot the people who are aware of the reality of Obama, and the con artist that he really is.
His awful record as a legislator pales against the Trinity and Ayers/Dohrn scandals (even my extreme-lefty family members despise Dohrn), and the way he deserted the voters who sent him both downstate and to Washington rankles even the Democratic partisans (even if they were only wondering "where's mine?")
Still, every dinner party is an exercise in eggshell-walking, until the reality of what's happened breaks out.
My response, when caught in the teeth of lefty rage, is just to say, quietly, "You really need to do some more research on that."
Sometimes it works.

11:33 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

Ayers/Dohrn scandals

There are no such scandals.

11:39 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

I went on to ask him how he thought a person as stupid, inexperienced and clueless as the media made Palin out to be could have an 80% approval rating while managing an 11 billion dollar budget and nearly 30,000 employees.

Cf. Pres. Fredo

11:48 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Stephanie said...

Steve J: These aren't the droids you are looking for.

11:58 PM, November 18, 2008  
Blogger Richard said...

Steve J.: "People who really believe in limited government don't support unchecked wiretapping, torture and the elimination of Habeas Corpus."

That argument's just plain ignorant. Both candidates have publicly supported unchecked wiretapping, and low-level "torture" in case of "ticking-clock" emergencies, from about mid-summer onwards. Nobody - BUT NOBODY - has supported or suggested eliminating Habeas Corpus. For any American CITIZEN. Not ever, since Honest Abe suspended it in the US Civil War 1861-1865, and got posthumously wrist-slapped by the SCOTUS for it. Because IF THEY HAD, then the death-factory camps would've been running nonstop for years - probably since about the mid-late 60s or so, which is when this "culture war" really got going. That is, of course, patently not the case; sufficient that even you ought to know better than that.

As for non-citizens lacking Habeas Corpus? Too stinking bad. Our laws cover us - their laws cover them. And if they want to start a fight, and start it by fighting dirty, well we can do that too. If they fight dirty first, we ENJOY fighting dirty after. We enjoy it, because it will end not only the immediate fight, but ALL future fights with that opponent. And you know what? A cursory glance at history shows that when applied, that method works.

12:36 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

As for non-citizens lacking Habeas Corpus? Too stinking bad.

1) Jose Padilla IS a citizen

2) Edmund Burke himself argued that Habes Corpus should be applied to non-citizens.

12:57 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

We enjoy it,

I am certain you do enjoy it.

12:59 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Acksiom said...

"Perhaps those of us here in the fake America were more than a little insulted to hear that real America only occurs in rural areas. The guilty are in both parties."

I'm sorry; why again exactly are we supposed to care even the slightest bit about merely potential feelings on your part, when you apparently can't be bothered to care about how your own comments might actively contribute to the suicides of men and boys?

1:29 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger cardeblu said...

Ah, Jose Padilla, aka Abu Abdullah al Mujahir, the "dirty bomber." As far as I am concerned, he gave up his citizenship when he was caught being an enemy combatant.

It has also been speculated that he was the 2nd John Doe getting out of the rental truck along with Timothy McVeigh in OK City. He certainly fits the artist's drawing as given by eye witnesses.

Why am I not surprised SJ defends him....

2:44 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Papa Ray,

We need more like you out there. What some do not understand is that people abuse you because you let them. Staying silent can sometimes escalate violence and abuse, and allows those who make the insults to feel they have free rein. An intelligent person reads the signs and uses humor, wit and Skinnerian conditioning to get liberals to halt the insults or at least think twice before uttering them.

6:19 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Jennifer Stites said...

Helen,
Many thanks for the post on this subject. I have been guilty of avoiding conversations, changing the subject, and keeping quiet when attacked. But no more.
After reading your post and these comments yesterday, I happened to talk to an older family member who is absolutely convinced that the "stinking rich republicans" want to take his Social Security. He went into the usual rant about the housing crisis beginning with Reagan, which is usually when I change the subject. But this time I said "No, that is wrong..." and clearly stated my position. No, he will not be convinced, but he will no longer be allowed to bully me simply because I'm one of the evil rich.
In fact, the battle has fired me up to start a new lucrative project to make up for the downturn.
Yep, success is still the best revenge. The intelligent, the creative, the industrious will be the last standing, and I will no longer apologize for this reality.

7:15 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

Jennifer Stites,

Good for you. As you say, it is not about convincing him, it is about not allowing yourself to be bullied, harassed and abused by those on the left who think that because they are leftists and the media covers for them, they can say anything they want. It starts in the home with telling family members that you will no longer tolerate their abuse and insults and in places where the media isn't there to cover for them. Remember that you are not alone and that many of us feel just as you do. Quit apologizing for yourself. You and people like you built this country.

8:17 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Aaron said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9:15 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Jennifer Stites said...

But if the shoe is too narrow or too short, ask for something better. Or kick them off.

9:39 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Aaron Chioino said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

9:42 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

nathan wrote: "take a moment and read through all the comments and count the number of times there is name-calling."

Excellent advice, I always appreciate someone who appeals to the numbers. I took your excellent advice. There were 17 posts prior to yours appealing to the facts. Of these posts, exactly two had any name calling. Two.

That works out to 11.8%.

It does tell me something, that the discourse you refer to is 88.2% civil. That sir is outstanding! Thanks for pointing this out!

Woo hoo, we are enormously civil!!!!


Trey

9:51 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

nathan later wrote: "most comments here filled with name calling and not roll calling. Changing terms does not change things"

Well, let's apply the numbers again shall we. Before that post of Nathan's there were 28 posts and only 5 could contain name calling. This is even if I counted "Marxist Rag" and "blue nose religious moralizer" and "geeks" as name calling. See, I am trying to work with you Nathan.

Given this very inclusive criteria I get 17.9% containing name calling. In other words, the posts were over 82% civil! Way to go us!

Nathan, the numbers show that you do not understand the concept of name calling. Note that I did not call you a name in the previous sentence, I stated a fact based on the data. "Most' means over 50%, and the data is nowhere near that.

Now, if I were to call you a spineless, castrated shell of a man who could not reason his way out of an empty kotex box, I would be calling you names. I will not do that. Instead, let me say what I said before, that you are quite mistaken that most of the posts were name calling.

It is in the numbers.

Oh, and thanks for the idea of counting them!

Trey

10:02 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Aaron Chioino said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:05 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Steve J,


Take your DU/Daily Kos Neo-Communist propaganda back to their boards where they beleive anything as long as it slams Republicans. Ive served for 26 years and was at Abu Ghuraib and know people who have run GITMO. Your assertions are repeated propaganda memes from Al Quaeda counterinsurgency training manuals, as well as the uusal "moral equivalence" type arguements from the dead USSR.

I bet your tune will change when Obama adopts all of these heinous "civil liberties violations" as his own policies. You libs are hypocritical that way.

10:07 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger rjnagle said...

Geez, what a holier-than-thou attitude.

Wow, so you feel superior to an underpaid retail worker who makes a random political remark and then you feel vindicated when he has to disown it out of fear of losing his job. That is extreme condescension.

"So many people who do not support Barack Obama and are downright sick of the creeping socialism in our country"

Say what? Creeping socialism? Have you actually lived in a socialist country? Are you seriously implying that the Bush Administration's actions over the last few months have been laissez-faire? Google "bush steel tariffs". Also, just for fun, just review US defense expenditures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_federations_by_military_expenditures
Surely you cannot sneer at Obama socialists without conceding that the US under the Bush Administration has a de facto state industrial policy supporting defense expenditures. And that is reprehensible on many levels.

I am generally free-market and voted for Obama. I don't view the two as logically inconsistent. I have lived in communist governments that were practically dictatorships for several years, so I don't need lectures on Ayn Rand/collectivism, etc.

And please don't paint the "poor conservatives" as the ones who are usually picked on. This usually has not been the case during the last campaign .

i am used to being treated like crap in conservative Texas for my admittedly liberal views (i.e, "free market liberal" ). My car has been vandalized on three separate occasions by conservatives who reacted to a fairly inoffensive political bumper sticker (one of them left a hilarious illiterate note with numerous misspellings, starting with "Foreigners f**ing go home" ). My mom worked for a company where she was swamped with email from coworkers are about how Obama was a 1)socialist, 2)terrorist sympathizer, 3)Muslim, 4)not a citizen. She had the audacity to let her bosses know these emails weren't appropriate for the workplace. She was recently laid off in Texas, and although it's unclear whether it had anything to do with her political views (or lack of sympathy for Barak-pals-around-with-terrorist emails), but in my mind the ridicule she faced in the workplace was much more significant than your gratuitous smackdown of a retail worker.

My complaint with many conservative critics is that they use sloppy meaningless rhetoric. You may not agree with Mr. Obama's political views, but at least he speaks precisely and with subtlety. The current Republican administration (presumably using the Frank Lutz/Karl Rowe playbook) often uses doublespeak to hide their true intent, relying on buzzwords and codewords to trigger emotions. While both sides are guilty of this practice, it seems to me that Republicans have engaged in this practice a lot more often over the last 20 years.

For those who wish instruction about how to make their blogs free of these political buzzwords, I recommend
the non sequitur .

Robert Nagle. aka idiotprogrammer .

10:12 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger SGT Ted said...

Anyone who claims to support free markets who voted for a Gramscian neo-Marxist follower of Saul Alinski and radical black liberation theology, which is racial neo-Marxism is seriously confused. Maybe you got confused because O! talks purty.

And yes, Bush was no conservative, He is a Christian Socialist, just like McCain is a moderate.

10:24 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Sgt Ted: I hope the above comment made you feel good. Keep up the great work. The Republican Party definitely needs more of your kind. With the likes of you, Barack Obama can count on 8 years in the white house.

10:29 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger rjnagle said...

To SGT Ted:

Have you actually read Saul Alinsky? (and by the way, notice the correct spelling of his name).

You clearly have no idea what Saul Alinsky is all about. He was a labor negotiator and his book Rules for Radicals is a classic work about negotiation and strategizing. For Pete's sake, the book is taught in MBA programs! (I confess I haven't read Alinsky's other stuff though--maybe his other stuff is more out there).

SGT Ted's remark is a classic illustration of my point. A collection of ideological buzzwords and labels is jumbled together to hint at guilt by association. Read thenonsequitur blog, my friend.

I guess to avoid the slurs by conservatives, it would be best for Democratic party nominees not to read anything intellectual ever.

I remember the remark about a decade ago that the only place where Marx is still studied is in American graduate programs. (That was written as a response to Eastern European prohibition against discussing Marxism in the university classroom).

I think the litmus test of intellectual freedom is whether you believe it should be allowed for professors to include a discussion of Marxist texts in university classrooms. When I taught at a business college in Albania, I often found myself in the curious position of having to defend the professor's right to choose the text appropriate for a class (although I was not concerned so much with economic theory as I was with American authors).

I for one would be concerned if a presidential candidate were not exposed to a spectrum of political and economic thought.

Sgt Ted seems to regard exposure to contrary/radical thought as a sort of disqualifying albatross. I on the other hand regard it as a sign of intellectual curiosity.

(Btw, I'd love to see what kind of discussion George W. could have about Marxism, Alinsky and liberation theology).

11:05 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

Dude, Obama's entire camaign was built on BUZZWORDS!

Change
Hope
Yes we can!

11:12 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

As I've said, the previously unhinged lefties have become the Emily Posts of the Internet. It's amazing what basking in the warm afterglow of an obamagasm has done for them.

11:16 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger fred said...

E. Roosevelt, a very wise and decent lady, though married to --oh, my--a Democrat--wisely observed that very bright people talk about ideas; those further down and not so smart, talked about events, and those at the lower end of the intellectual ladder talked about people.

11:20 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

"Sgt Ted seems to regard exposure to contrary/radical thought as a sort of disqualifying albatross. I on the other hand regard it as a sign of intellectual curiosity."

Come on. This it a ridiculous strawman of Conservative critisism of Obama.

The man isn't being attacked because he's read Marx or knows Marxists, he is being criticized because that belief is central to his identity. Just about every candid statement he makes shows his antipathy to free market principles and his earnest belief in a top down Marxist approach to the economy.

11:21 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

"those at the lower end of the intellectual ladder talked about people."

So Lefties must be pretty g**damned stupid since all they have talked about for the last 8 years are Bush, Cheney and people like them.

11:26 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Tom Spaulding said...

My feelings were not hurt at all when Ms. Palin insulted everyone who didn't live in a rural area. I knew that statement was going to be final straw the Republican Party for the elections of 2008. I was jumping for joy. Keep up with the negativity folks, go for it.

Hmmm, at first you were "more than a little insulted", now your "feelings were not hurt at all", and you were "jumping for joy". Which is it?

I realize that when one bases one's life on their feelings it's difficult to discern them after a while, but either you were insulted or filled with joy. Not being a confused Liberal myself, I guess you could be both, theoretically.

Or are you being obtuse (look it up) and pretending not to understand what she meant. 'Cause if you can't understand Palin, by your side's own definition, you must really be an idiot.

So there you have it...your three choices of feelings to feel: You are an idiot (i.e. too thick to understand Palin did not insult anyone with a clue) or you are lying...or being an Obama voter, more likely both.

Feelings Navidad!

11:52 AM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Cham said...

Where do I send the check to make sure Sarah Palin is the Republican party nominee for president in 2012! She's too good to be true.

12:05 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Jennifer Stites said...

We all know more than a few at the top of the "intellectual ladder" who have not created a darned thing. So if you are driven by ideas, pay attention to events, and choose great people to work/associate with where does that put you on the ladder? When someone hides behind the intellectual purism my first inclination is to ask what about that person makes me want to respect his ideas.
I'm a mensa member but I also started a small business in high school that paid for college. Which of these facts do you think means more to me? Intelligence/intellectualism is great-but creativity and determination are far more impressive to me.

12:17 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Tom Spaulding said...

Where do I send the check to make sure Sarah Palin is the Republican party nominee for president in 2012! She's too good to be true.

Still confused, eh? I'm not surprised. I feel...I feel...pity, that's it!

Unlike O, we aren't asking for money for Palin '12 yet, though she has served more than 143 days as Governor.

As far as donations, just hit Michael Yon's tipjar (look him up). Sarah, who is too good to be false, would approve.

You'll feel better about yourself for doing it. That should be all the impetus (look it up) you need.

Love, Morris Albert

12:21 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Helen said...

rjnagle,

Yep, Alinsky's techniques are just innocent classic material for use in MBA programs. I assume then, that you will have no objections to those of us on the right using some of Alinksy's little gems such as "Does this particular end justify this particular means?" or how about "the real arena is corrupt and bloody. Life is a corrupting process from the time a child learns to play his mother off his father in the politics of when to go to bed. He who fears corruption fears life." I doubt anyone here cares if Obama reads Alinsky but believing in his principals is another thing.

12:23 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger e. nonee moose said...

This "Silent Majority" crap has got to stop...and stop NOW.

Correction... you're the "Silent MINORITY." Get used to it.

12:59 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Greg Costello said...

So many people who do not support Barack Obama and are downright sick of the creeping socialism in our country are not speaking up...

Sorry to hear you're not supporting our new president, Helen. I guess we can start calling you fake Americans and blame-America-firsters, eh?

Oh, and maybe that fellow in the pharmacy meant "What do you expect: This state reliably votes Republican in presidential elections?"

Good luck with that Obama-derangement syndrome. Write yourself a prescription, love.

1:34 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

e.nonee moose --

Just like the minority did in 2004?

1:37 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Jennifer Stites said...

No, Moose, people who voted for McCain are the minority. Conservatives/Libertarians are another number altogether. That is why you are still here trying to fight conservative thought. If the Obama victory is such a huge slide to the left in ideological thought of the country why is the group-think falling apart so quickly in California?

1:46 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

rjnagle wrote: "That is extreme condescension."

Mirror mirror.

Trey

2:17 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

sgt ted wrote: "Bush was no conservative, He is a Christian Socialist"

Ouch. I winced when I read that. It was the painful bite of truth.

Thanks Sarge, that was a very clarifying statement, multiple light bulbs clicked and the room in my head got brighter.

It explained why I SO dislike Huckabee, who is another Christian Socialist.

I am down with the Christian part, but we part company when these guys have an un-Biblical world view concerning government. Jesus said "The poor will be with you always" but Bush and Huckabee just think Jesus did not have the right social programs or did not know where to spend the money.

Sigh.

Thanks Sarge, you really did me some good.

Trey

2:23 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger m said...

Helen and other right-wing wackjobs:

Please keep screaming at people in public because their political views differ from yours. It will only continue helping us win elections.

Also, keep promoting Sarah Palin as the new leadership of the Republican party. She is great!

Thanks.

2:36 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Tom Spaulding said...

I guess we can start calling you fake Americans and blame-America-firsters, eh?

Is that it? The reason for all of the past 8 years of treasonous bile is your feelings were hurt? Somebody called you names? Boo Hoo. The Unhinged Left (that is to say, most of them) had their delicate sensibilities damaged by the truth - you do blame America first, don't you? If not, who do you blame first? Never yourself, I would guess.

And as my supposed intellectual superior, your inability to understand Sarah Palin - yet somehow grok Joe Bidenspeak - puts your intelligence claims to the test to say the least.

But hey, keep believing in the "fake Americans" meme if it helps you get through the a long day of canvassing for ACORN.

Tom Petty said it best. As regards to '08: Even The Losers Get Lucky Sometimes.

2:57 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

m wrote: "Please keep screaming at people"

This is one of the things I have grown to love about excitable Lefties, their inability to seperate their fear from reality. Anyone who can read and reason sees that there was no screaming in Dr. Helen's report. Massive projection there m, massive.

Not your fault really. It comes down to your childhood and prenatal development. Without a functioning preorbital frontal cortex (POC) you cannot have a good relationship or soothe yourself or think when you are angry or frightened. Sadly, it is very unlikely that you will ever be able to.

The whole thing is annoying till those of us who can think while upset understand it, and then it is a wonderful help in knowing how to deal with people. You see someone without a functioning POC and you then know how they will act out when upset. If you wish, you can use this knowledge to drive them crazy, or use it to just ignore them.

Trey

3:06 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger salvage said...

You are an American Hero.

3:46 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Greg Costello said...

The reason for all of the past 8 years of treasonous bile is your feelings were hurt? Somebody called you names? Boo Hoo.

And as my supposed intellectual superior...

From http://www.answers.com/topic/straw-man

To argue against a straw man is to interpret someone's position in an unfairly weak way, and so argue against a position that nobody holds, or is likely to hold.

Tom, I'm not too upset about past treatment... I'm just curious what will happen when people who have spent 8 years railing against my "treasonous bile" have to face the facts that not supporting one's president (Mrs. R is putting herself in this camp) fits the established neocon definition of treason as applied to Pres. Bush.

3:47 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger lovemelikeareptile said...

WHA ? Tennessee is a liberal haven. Down here in MS we went 57-43 for McCain. Rednecks ? in Tennessee--Memphis, Nashville, Chattanooga, Knoxville... ?
Thou shalt not speak ill of a sister Southern state, unless its in-house.

3:49 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

and conversely Greg, I'm sure you folks will still continue to believe that dissent is the highest form of patriotism, Right?

3:55 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger e. nonee moose said...

Jesus said "The poor will be with you always"

Quoted horribly out of context. In no way does this mean that Christians do not have an obligation to aid those who are less fortunate than themselves. Huckabee is right on track with this one.

5:28 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Great idea for a bumper sticker, yosemite sam!

"I Stole This Bumper Sticker Off a Democrat's Car....Dissent is the Highest Form of Patriotism"

6:41 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Nancy said...

Tom Petty said it best. As regards to '08: Even The Losers Get Lucky Sometimes.

Sorry wingnuts - all you have is Ted Nugent - Petty is pro-Obama too.

And as for anybody being scared of Sarah Palin - only if she became an English or civics teacher at my kid's school!

7:18 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

Helen, apparently your blog has become a beacon for the sock-puppetry of the left. Happens when you post a pro-conservative article, but hey, the good thing is they don't make sense so they're easy to spot, they do tire quickly and they have to replace their keyboards with some frequency.

7:32 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Stormbringer said...

Deadly Tedly's sex-crazed lyrics put me off, even though he's a fantastic guitarist. Then I learned to respect his mind and spirit from interviews (Glenn Beck gave him an hour on CNN before he moved to Fox).

Helen, I want to crank up Montgomery Gentry after reading your remarks after Nugent's, and saying, "Hell yeah! Right on!" I've hit mindless sheep with facts when they're spewing rhetoric, and yes, they stammer and/or back down.

8:05 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger rjnagle said...

Yosemite Sam: You said: "Just about every candid statement he makes shows his antipathy to free market principles and his earnest belief in a top down Marxist approach to the economy."

This is a statement which is objectively verifiable. Please provide examples. I for one believe the second part of your statement ("...earnest belief in a top down Marxist....") is nonsense.

Dr. Helen: you answered your own criticism vis a vis. Alinsky. You say "I doubt anyone here cares if Obama reads Alinsky but believing in his principals is another thing.". So are you asserting that Obama believes in Alinsky's principles? Because if you make that statement, you need to provide evidence supporting that claim.

I really don't mind people digging up the books politicians read and the teachers they studied with when arguing politics. But if you cannot show how this "intellectual background" affects a politician's actions today, the accusation begins to seem less like criticism than an ideological witchhunt.

8:38 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Greg Costello said...

and conversely Greg, I'm sure you folks will still continue to believe that dissent is the highest form of patriotism, Right?

Sure will, Sam. I may or may not like it when those on the right refuse to support President Obama, but I'll never accuse them of hating America. Like I implied earlier, I'll leave it to those who lobbed similar accusations over the past eight years to now either be silently reverent of the office of POTUS, or decide that they'd rather be America-haters by their own definition.

Of course, there's an option C that precludes logic, as well as the golden rule. I will bet that will be the road more-travelled.

8:50 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

Ive served for 26 years

So what? That doesn't mean squat, son.

9:51 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

Hooray for Republicans! The party of bullies!

10:10 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

Both candidates have publicly supported unchecked wiretapping

Obama hasn't.

January 8, 2008 1:16 PM PST
Obama: No warrantless wiretaps if you elect me

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9845595-7.html

10:40 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

Anyone who claims to support free markets who voted for a Gramscian neo-Marxist follower of Saul Alinski and radical black liberation theology, which is racial neo-Marxism is seriously confused.

LMFAO!!! More babbling from the Ignorant Right.

10:44 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

TMink said: Anyone who can read and reason sees that there was no screaming in Dr. Helen's report. Massive projection there m, massive.

Dr. H herself said she used "a loud voice," and then ended her quote with four exclamation points! Sounds a bit like screaming to me.

Did it ever occur to you far-right types that we "Marxists" might stammer a bit when confronted with your "facts" because we have a hard time believing such ignorance exists?

11:04 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

moose wrote: "In no way does this mean that Christians do not have an obligation to aid those who are less fortunate than themselves."

That is why I did not say anything of the sort! I tithe. My point is that the government cannot end poverty. A Christian Socialist seeks to use the government for "Christian" ends through wealth redistribution. Given that Jesus said poverty would be a chronic event, it makes Christian Socialists clueless.

Trey

11:38 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

Noble wrote: "Dr. H herself said she used "a loud voice," and then ended her quote with four exclamation points! Sounds a bit like screaming to me."

Dude, I can believe that it sounds like screaming to you. That has nothing to do with what the lady wrote. You weren't there, and last time I checked, exclamation points are a form of written, not verbal expression.

If you wish to make things up, why not make up something interesting, like UFOs or aliens.

"Did it ever occur to you far-right types that we "Marxists" might stammer a bit when confronted with your "facts" because we have a hard time believing such ignorance exists?"

Not when you cannot understand plain, simple written English dude. The thought never crosses our minds!

Now some of you lefties can think and communicate. Those guys and gals are fine. We can have an interesting conversation with those folks.

Maybe you should hang around them a bit. Perhaps it would rub off.

Trey

11:44 PM, November 19, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

TMink, I was under the impression that she was reporting on a verbal interaction. Since there seems to be no video or audio of the event and I was not there I can only go by her "written expression" of it.

She describes using a loud voice and then puts four exclamation points. Based on that and her confrontational attitude, and her quote from Nugent about "pounding your fist and raising hell," and her unfounded accusation that the recipient of her tirade was calling here a redneck, I think any reasonable person would think it likely that she screamed, dude.

12:20 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger El Duderino said...

Tom Petty sides with Obama? Man, the Gop is screwed! Who could oppose the cultural juggernaut of Tom Petty - particularly now that he has two brand spankin new plastic hips and wil.i.am? I surrender, where can I drink my Obama Kool-Aid?

12:34 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Greg Costello said...

Noble, you moonbat, you're overlooking the overwhelming courage that Dr. H shows in the face of this liberal lefty libtardish libnuttery.

Truly, it takes guts to Speak Up! and stand up to this clerk, when he's in a servile position to you and it does not behoove his employment prospects to say "Um, excuse me lady, but my friend and I are having a private conversation. Now if you'd like to pay for your floss and Jergen's, I'll be happy to help, otherwise don't interrupt."

It's great that people like Helen have the strength to Speak Up!, and even greater that they have the wherewithal to pay themselves on the back about it as they exhort others to do thusly.

12:37 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

But, but Greg...

If the oppressed conservatives all speak up, how will I and my fellow Obamanoids be able to take away their guns and force them all to have gay sex?

12:54 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Richard said...

SJ, if The One doesn't support unlimited wiretapping - as you quoted from January - then why'd he vote in favor of it in AUGUST 2008?

"Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth," doesn't even come close to how slippery-tongued Barry Obama is. He changes his positions so often and so fluidly, you have to go by what his most-recent position has been. Which, let me repeat, has been in favor of keeping the Bush administration's policies regarding wiretaps.

12:56 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Richard said...

Greg, the clerk is not in a "servile" position to Dr. Reynolds. He's not in a servile position to anyone. He's a free man. Dr. Reynolds was reminding him that she too is free to have her own opinion, regardless of his (or any of our) opinion of her opinion. She was also subtly reminding him that -unrelated to his actual opinion- by using epithets like "redneck" in a public place, he was being rude and obnoxious. And that if he was going to act that way, she COULD (not to say would, but could) take her business elsewhere.

When I worked retail, I was the lone conservative Unionized jobs in Michigan were like that. But despite being 2004, with the most acrimonious campaign until this last, I NEVER started talking politics in the store. Not with my coworkers, not with the customers.

If your self-identity is so wrapped up in politics that you cannot leave it alone, even for 8 hours in a job where statistically about half of the people you deal with are in favor of one side, and half are bitterly opposed, then you're going to absolutely fail when it comes down to an actual emergency. Facts care nothing for our interpretations of them - they are what they are, and wishing them away won't change them. That's something I think both sides should keep in mind throughout the aftermath of 2008.

1:13 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Steve J. said...

SJ, if The One doesn't support unlimited wiretapping - as you quoted from January - then why'd he vote in favor of it in AUGUST 2008?

That bill does not allow illegal wiretaps. Didn't you read it?

2:37 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

One at a time doesn't cut it, so they are tag teaming. This is rich.
I am really enjoying reading the mirror image of what they have been projecting for the last 8 years.

In two years, congress will be cleaned up. In four, Obama will be gone. Bathe in it while you can, kids.

5:11 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

Noble wrote: "I think any reasonable person would think it likely that she screamed, dude."

We know you do, pal.

Your inner view of the world overcomes your actual view of it. It happens all the time doesn't it? It must be annoying.

But see, words have meaning, and some of us on this earth think more about what happened than how we feel about what happened. Screamed, shrieked, yelled, these words are basically synonyms.

Loud voice ain't.

Of course this only matteris if you actually CARE about reality muchacho.

Trey

8:18 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

Of course this only matteris if you actually CARE about reality muchacho.

Oh Treyster, you make me laugh. Good old reality. Let's look at what objective reality says about the meaning of the word scream(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scream):

2 a: to speak or write with intense or hysterical emotion b: to protest, demand, or complain vehemently

I'd say 2b definitely fits. 2a possibly also fits due to the reasons I enumerated earlier, but as you pointed out, sport, I wasn't there. Were you there, amigo?

9:45 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

She was also subtly reminding him that -unrelated to his actual opinion- by using epithets like "redneck" in a public place, he was being rude and obnoxious.

Perhaps you'd like to point out to us where anyone besides Dr. Helen used the word "redneck?" Someone was indeed being rude and obnoxious but it wasn't the sales clerk.

9:54 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

Noble, what an interesting name! You are just here to stir up things my friend, are you bored in real life? In one post you say you weren't there for the statement, in the next you are stating that Dr. Helen was rude. Which was it dude?

You don't have to be earnest or well meaning for people here to want to talk to you, but you should at a bare minimum be consistent.

So you are going under the troll heading until you at least pick an approach and stick with it. Otherwise, corresponding with you is like wrestling with a pig, we just get dirty, and the pick actually enjoys it!

Come on back when you feel like having a discussion and are willing to be something other than a troll.

Trey

11:01 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

Noble, what an interesting name!

Thanks, I think.

In one post you say you weren't there for the statement, in the next you are stating that Dr. Helen was rude. Which was it dude?

I see no inconsistency, old chap. I have consistently agreed that I was not there. Not having been there, I have to rely on Dr. Helen's reporting of the incident. Based on her account, I have come to the conclusion that she was rude. If you know something more about it, you're welcome to share it with me and I may revise my opinion.

Come on back when you feel like having a discussion and are willing to be something other than a troll.

I'm back, fella!

11:42 AM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger TMink said...

Well OK then!

HELEN, DID YOU YELL AT THE POOR SCHLUB AT THE STORE? DID HE CRY? DID YOU SHOW A WEAPON?

Sorry for the yelling. 8)

Trey

12:11 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

It drives you Lefties crazy that people aren't just going to stand there and be insulted anymore.

If the clerk thinks Tennessee sucks so much then she is free to move elsewhere.

Greg:

"Like I implied earlier, I'll leave it to those who lobbed similar accusations over the past eight years to now either be silently reverent of the office of POTUS, or decide that they'd rather be America-haters by their own definition."

The Left was called unpatriotic not because of their opposition to Bush, but because they just can't seem to ever support this country under any circumstances.

Case in point: The time right after Sep. 11. All the Lefties wanted to do was try to figure out what America had done wrong to cause the attack. They loved to attack the spontaneous displays of patriotism when people hung flags on their cars and on overpasses.

We all remember the sniggers about how these displays were fascist.

That's why we called the Left unpatriotic.

RJnagle:

"This is a statement which is objectively verifiable. Please provide examples. I for one believe the second part of your statement ("...earnest belief in a top down Marxist....") is nonsense. "

Oh, his statement about spreading the wealth to Joe the Plumber for one. His statement that he wanted to raise certain taxes, even though there might be a drop in revenue, because he wanted it to be more fair.

The man has surrounded himself with Marxists throughout his career, now maybe, possibly he might not embrace their beliefs, but my money is on the idea that you know a man by the company he keeps.

We'll know soon enough before too long.

12:17 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Lydia said...

"Please remember that most people are cowards, if you speak up, they will often back down or stammer."

I'd tell you to get out of my face and mind your own business. And you aren't going to dare touch me.

But I understand people who simply want to get the F away from intrusive nuts with a monstrously large ego. If you look crazy, even more people are going to be "cowards" by just giving you a wide berth.

12:22 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

"I for one believe the second part of your statement ("...earnest belief in a top down Marxist....") is nonsense. "

Hmmmmm, we'll see.

Maybe the above is a bit of hyperbole on my part, but I certainly think he will employ a top down management style to governing. I also suspect the result will be even more influence of big corporations in our lives, especially in the health care sector.

Everything in Obama's background in Chicago embraces a top down approach to governing. Chicago is one of the most authoritarian cities in the country. Mayor Daley does as he likes and runs the city as his own personal fiefdom. His illegal closure of Miegs field is a typical example.

Obama is part of that culture.

12:30 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

So Lydia, if you were being openly insulted in public, you would just keep quiet and not say a word.

Yeah, right.

12:34 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

Lefties,

Instead of harassing us poor, beleaguered Conservatives, maybe you should police your own side of the aisle. It seems that Obama is going out of his way to recreate the Clinton administration.

And a lot of those Obama voters sure seem to not like gay marriage.

Better get going and get your house in order.

12:43 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Flash Gordon said...

The sheer number of comments here is a hopeful sign. I like what you did, but I'm a proud redneck. If they would name a sports team "The Rednecks" my tribe would think that was wonderful. Can you imagine a stadium full of folks screaming "Go Rednecks!"

Redneckism comes natural to me because of my Scot-Irish background. We are the ones who coming upon two men engaged in a fist fight step up and say, "Excuse me. Is this a private fight or can anyone get in?"

1:08 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Ride Fast said...

[...] Say it and say all of it [...]

2:52 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

yosemite, most lefties are only tough in blogs, against caucasian republicans - where they know they are at least safe from bodily harm.

That's why the gays who want marriage rights are going after Utah instead of demonstrating and parading through black and hispanic neighborhoods who actually participated, and voted the gay marriage thing down in California. As was discussed on another blog - they are afraid they might just get their asses whipped. Plus, you know, racism accusations trump gay rights.

4:17 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

yosemite, most lefties are only tough in blogs, against caucasian republicans - where they know they are at least safe from bodily harm.

I thought the point of this blog post was that the lefties were mean and the poor oppressed righties had to defend themselves. Are you trying to say that Dr. Helen wasn't viciously attacked by the clerk and the boomer? Or maybe she was, but it must be a rare occurrence since we're all so frightened to speak up. Why does it warrant an admonition to conservatives to fight back if we're so meek?

As for Caucasian Republicans, I think they're pretty dangerous. Yosemite, for example, apparently has a lot of guns.

4:47 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Yosemite Sam said...

Hey Noble,

How do you know I'm a Republican?

Actually, I don't think much more of that party than the Democrats. Two sides of the same authoritarian coin.

As far as your other comment, typical Leftie, afraid of a man's tools. I am actually as dangerous as a soft puppy.

5:32 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Dr. Helen? Who's talking about Dr. Helen?. I'm talking about gays going after what they feel is an accepted and "safe target" as opposed to demonstrating in front of the groups who actually voted against gay marriage, also democrats. Perhaps your side (democrat) isn't as homogeneous as you thought. And perhaps you are truly afraid to state your case in front of your own "team members" who just don't think same sex marriage is acceptable to them.

6:34 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

And true to prediction and form, the lefty - poos are now trying to circumvent the people's vote through the courts.

6:38 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

Yosemite, really you don't scare me. I was just making a little joke.

br549, you're off topic. It's my first time on this blog so maybe that's acceptable but I don't really want to get into your homophobia problems and racism right now.

6:51 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Nice try. Also predictable and true to form.

7:14 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

Indeed you are predictable and true to form br549!

7:17 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger MB said...

Helen, apparently, is really getting to be little miss big-wheel.

How droll.

Everyone's a coward now, as she saunters around looking for new targets.

8:01 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Oligonicella said...

Greg Costello said...

"Like I implied earlier, I'll leave it to those who lobbed similar accusations over the past eight years to now either be silently reverent of the office of POTUS, or decide that they'd rather be America-haters by their own definition."

Apparently you didn't listen to the definition. It's things like burning the flag, spitting on vets, hanging effigies of the POTUS, carrying placards with guns drawn to his head and the like. That's the definition. And yes, I'll call them America-haters as well if they do those things. Ain't particularly worried it'll happen, though.

Noble --

What the hell was that, a Pee Wee Herman imitation?

9:42 PM, November 20, 2008  
Blogger Michael Lee said...

Frightened in America means frightened of having your corporate masters fire your ass if you speak your mind.

People who let their right to their opinions be suppressed by fear of losing a job in a country where that is at worst a minor setback, and more usually a chance to do better, don't deserve to have opinions.

With that said, I don't talk politics at work, unless someone else picks a fight in public. And in those cases, my goal is to make the point that they're being gauche and offensive. It's fun sometimes to use the politically correct people's weapons against them.

As I've gotten older, I've realized that arguing with people is purely an exhibition sport: you will never convince anyone by arguing with them. So if you're not arguing in front of other people who are being entertained, you're wasting your time.

There are standards of civility and tolerance that need to be enforced. Making morons at little afraid to be moronic again in public is a public service.

12:32 AM, November 23, 2008  
Blogger CubicZirconiaJim said...

Whew. Letting off a lot of caustic steam here. I had no idea that 'real' neoconservatives were the functional equivalent of God's chosen people. Makes everything the Jewish people ever encountered seem like a walk in the park. Each year O'reilly has to save Christmas because it is the major holiday of the poor little persecuted dominant religion here in the states.

Funny thing that freedom of speech. From 2000 onward up to this minute, it is still un-American to say war crimes in the same sentence as Bush-Cheney. Left-wing radicals in conjunction with veterans from this Iraqi invasion (aka Winter Soldiers) had the courage to speak up at the Denver Demo-con this fall. And the presence of veterans was the only thing that kept the Denver police (under tutelage of the Secret Service) from clubbing and gassing them outright.

And the 'liberal' media could not be bothered to pay attention gross abuse of police power in Minneapolis. No. They were busy investigative-ly reporting on all those swanky parties. Freedom of Assembly and petitioning the government for redress of grievances is not sexy enough and not good 'copy'.

I would have gladly supported Kucinich or Ron Paul (in that order) but 'reasonable' commissars prevailed I suppose.

I will offer prayers for your bruised egos since clearly any and every bad thing that has happened to anyone since the beginning of time is directly attributable to the President-elect.

God forbid we should have to give up fear-based xenophobia and looking for terrorists under every stone. After all Rachel Ray did wear that scarf eerily similar to the one worn by Yassir Arafat. She must have clearly been a food-based insurgent.

11:52 PM, November 24, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Funny how things change, cubic. I thought everything was Bush's fault.

Judging by your comments, is one to surmise you don't have any religious beliefs, so no one else should either? Christmas has been around a long time. I submit it will still be celebrated on December 25th long after you and I are gone.

As far as I know, Obama is the first and only president (elect or standing) to skip church and go to the gym instead. You must be swooning over that. But Obama is a Christian. He said so. So maybe he will again attend church after he is sworn in and has control over Air Force One and can fly to Chicago every Sunday on the people's dime.

8:41 AM, November 25, 2008  
Blogger Noble said...

br549, maybe you can point out where Cubic is saying you shouldn't practice your religion. I think he is saying the same thing you are: the Pagan solstice holiday that Christians renamed isn't going anywhere. So why is Billo always up in arms about it every year?

As for Obama not attending church, I hadn't heard about that. It's good news to me though as that will give him more time to do things that actually matter.

Merry Christmas, br549, from your friendly neighborhood atheist! Also, today being Tuesday, don't forget to worship the Norse god Tyr, for which it is named.

@CubicZirconiaJim: Ron Paul? Really?

12:27 PM, November 25, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Perhaps you should point out where I said that he said I shouldn't practice my religion. I was asking for further clarification on his statement. Believe it or not, I even wonder why you believe some of what you believe, and would enjoy hearing about it.

I will admit I was making fun of obama in my last sentences. You know, the one who went to church for 20 years in chicago listening to the reverend wright. Perhaps as long as it served his ambitions, he went to a particular church. Now that he has reached his pinnacle, he no longer needs it. Even if every president before him did the same, they kept up appearances for at least the duration. I would attempt to contact him over it, but I can't seem to find an address or phone number for the "Office of the President Elect". And since I don't personally know Huffy, I can't ask her for his e-mail address. You wouldn't happen to have it in your blackberry, would you?

5:56 PM, November 25, 2008  
Blogger br549 said...

Oh. Christmas is December 25th. Today is November 25th. Wish me the same in a month. Even though it's the thought that counts.

6:01 PM, November 25, 2008  
Blogger CubicZirconiaJim said...

Maybe he could fly to Venus from the International Space Station. Did I write my previous post in Sanskrit? Not quite. I support fully each citizen's freedom to worship in any manner that does not threaten the life or liberty of other citizens. Unfortunately, many of my fundamentalist brothers and sisters lie in wait for any pretext to hate kill and start 'holy' wars. And they are not limited to the Muslim faith.

Christians Sikhs and ultra-orthodox Jews take up the slack. I personally happen to study the teachings of Jesus Christ and believe that he was the first example of nonviolent resistance and the immense power that carries with it. Some say that he was the original 'bleeding heart' but, you know, feathers get ruffled. On the topic of the Great Spirit (and I prefer that to the male oriented God, Jehova, [your favorite here] since when did the creator need defense counsel or a posse to see that no persons harmed his/her/it's grandeur?

There is a truth that transcends all our religious beliefs and vanities. That truth does not depend upon our belief in it do do it's thing. It simply is. I want to coexist with everyone. Wingnuts and Gun Owners of America included. Obama is but a small part of the next step for humanity on Planet Earth. If the sixties were said to be the Dawning of the Age of Aquarius then the cusp of the next decade can reasonably said to be the 'baby steps' of the same age.

Peace and love in the moment.

10:28 PM, November 25, 2008  
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