Wednesday, May 13, 2009

PJTV: Deadbeat Dads, the recession and divorced men

I interview men's rights activist Glenn Sacks about Deadbeat Dads, his Lifetime TV Campaign, how the recession is hitting men and why non-custodial parents are the only ones whose debts will put them in jail. And do women use the courts as their "private army of vengeance?" Don't miss this important conversation.

You can watch here. Or just click on the picture.

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Blogger GM Roper said...

Sadly, one of the reasons that "jail" was enacted as a penalty for not paying child support was that so many men abrogated their parental responsibilities.

Sex and the moments of pleasure it brings is also often the down payment and 18 year long term of responsibility that too many men AND women forgo.

4:13 PM, May 13, 2009  
Blogger wolfboy69 said...

GM Roper,

The only problem is, that women aren't held as accountable as men are. I'm sure there has been a woman jailed for it somewhere, but I don't recall seeing anything about it.

The fact that 2 of the biggest deadbeats in, I believe, Texas are women and are on the 10 most wanted posters, is phenomenal. My question is, if they are caught, will they serve jail time for it.

Somehow, methinks not.

4:36 PM, May 13, 2009  
Blogger C. R. Jones said...

First I want to thank Dr. Helen for hosting Glenn SACKS - she is a kind and gracious hostess that, sadly, we experience far too infrequently.

Secondly, while I support Glen Sacks and Father&Families "pressure-tactics" against Lifetime Networks regarding the "Deadbeat Dad" show, it is because it is hateful for heaping abuse on an disadvantaged men who are mostly struggling. This is cruel and inhumane treatment of men that damages their relationships with their kids. I am VERY PROUD of the fact that Glenn even opposed the suggestion about "Deadbeat Moms" on those grounds.

However, if they go ahead with the show I think a better solution would be to have some equal, uncensored airtime to counteract such a terribly unbalanced program to expose instead the collection practices of these private and many other Public STATE Collection agencies - many of whom conduct themselves reprehensibly! As well of course, counteracting examples of EXCELLENT Divorced/Separated Dad could be presented. That way we may be able to use a bad circumstance to our ultimate advantage.

8:03 PM, May 13, 2009  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

I'm no fan of Glenn Sacks but I support what he's doing.

That aside, I couldn't help but comment on this posting by Jeffrey Rogers Hummel on Liberty & Power group blog on GMU's History News Network. I couldn't help but refer him to an article that briefly describes the arrest of Bobby Sherrill for failure to pay child support while he was a hostage during the first Gulf War. Debtor's prisons were abolished my ass.

3:53 AM, May 14, 2009  
Blogger Norman Lathers said...

This whole child support thing is the McCarthy era all over again. Hopefully we will look back in shame twenty or thirty years from now.

Thanks for making the video Dr. Helen. Pajamas TV is definitely not P.C.

9:49 AM, May 14, 2009  
Blogger Sad_Dad said...

J. Bowen,

Why are you no fan of Glenn Sacks?? He is doing what most of us cannot, he is a good man I've met him in person and spoke to him. He's fighting for us even though he never went through some of the horrors that some of us non-custodial parents have. To me that says a lot about the man. We need Glenn as well Dr Helen and Ned Holstien. What has Glenn ever done to you for you not to be a fan of his. Me personaly, I look up to Glenn with much respect even in a hero kind of status.

12:31 PM, May 14, 2009  
Blogger Doom said...

This has been going on so long (the oppression of men), and politics continues to lean left, while the government just ramps up it's anti-family stance. I honestly do not see anything changing soon. Still, it is good to see people working on it. And yes, it is great to see a woman look at these issues in a reasonable manner.

Oh, by the way, you have a great Southern accent. This was the first time I have heard you talk. Just saying...

12:39 PM, May 14, 2009  
Blogger Roci said...

The abuses of the system will never change as long as the payoff is based on what the man earns instead of what the child needs.

The needs should be established independent of what the man makes. The children of donald trump and bill the grocery clerk should be equal in the eyes of the state.

The term for having a judge decide the support dollar amounts is called "arbitrary and capricious".

3:28 PM, May 14, 2009  
Blogger Glenn said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:05 PM, May 14, 2009  
Blogger J. Bowen said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

9:31 PM, May 14, 2009  
Blogger Rob Fedders said...

Actually, Glenn. I would think that a high profile guy like you would not need to rush here and defend yourself.

You have been guilty of slamming enough men in the MRM by writing articles about "woman bashers", and by being one of those MRA's who thinks nothing of shaming men back into line with charges of "misogyny."

There have been a lot of us who have not appreciated it, and have subsequently stopped reading and contributing to your site.

Several times I have wanted to speak out publicly about the damage that is done to the "movement" by actions such as this from high-profile people in the MRM... BUT, older and wiser people in the MRM talked me out of it even though they mostly agreed. Mostly, their point was that such people still did more good for us than harm, which is true.

But, since you are a high profile guy who has taken license by extending that power over the little guys who "sucked it up for the overall good," then maybe now you should do the same.

7:09 AM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger Glenn said...

"You have been guilty of slamming enough men in the MRM by writing articles about "woman bashers", and by being one of those MRA's who thinks nothing of shaming men back into line with charges of "misogyny.'"

I criticize feminists for their man-bashing and I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't also criticize the woman-bashing in our movement, and there's plenty of it. Too many people in our movement, including leaders, have turned a blind eye to it--I don't.--GS

9:43 AM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger Rob Fedders said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

10:58 AM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger Rob Fedders said...

Yes Glenn, and like I said, many, many people in the MRM vehemently disagree with what some of the things you say - especially the chivalrist crapola, and yet they keep their mouths shut "for the good of the movement."

Too bad that you don't feel you are also obligated by such morals in return.

Also, anyone who studies "movements" will sooner or later have come across such theories as "repressive tolerance" and so on. This means that that people will always choose the "middle ground." Therefore, Glenn, if you wish to be a "mainstream guy" - which you are - you owe that in large part to people being more radical than you, which is what makes you appear "mainstream."

For example: Gloria Steinem's ideas were much more palatable to society than Andrea Dworkin's. However, if it weren't for the Andrea Dworkins, Ms. Steinem would have been the "furthest radical" and thus, society would have chosen someone more "moderate" than her.

You, on the other hand - as well as many "mainstreamers", seem to think that trying to discredit those more radical than you is what makes you mainstream - but by discrediting them, you are actually shooting yourself in the foot - and you are also "dumbing down" the movement at the same time.

There is a big difference between calling someone a misogynist because they truly DO hate women, and calling someone a misogynist for stating that marriage to modern is such a crap deal that men should avoid entanglements with women altogether. I have first hand seen you fail to make the distinction enough times to quit reading you.

Like I said, many have kept their mouths shut and chosen NOT to criticize you openly for it... but, one wonders the wisdom of that when you apparently don't feel that you are obligated to show similar respect for those with views not aligning with your own.

Basically, the "mainstream guys" are not anymore talented at finding "the truth" than anyone else. What they are best at is getting their version of the message before the public. There is a big difference.

The growth of the MRM of late has been in large part to the zillions of "nobody's" that have contributed to the debate - and many of these men, who have certainly been not intellectually-challenged, have been shamed by the mainstream guys who feel they have a right to extend their morality to other people's views.

One of the things that most frustrates me about the MRM is how much I realize that the MRM itself was guilty of attempting to hide the actual truth from other men for PC reasons.

What you want to say on your blog is your business, Glenn. I am merely pointing out that anyone who gets mainstream seems to have stepped on a few toes to get there. Most of those people have chosen to suck it up for the greater good and not attack you - even though you often use your blog to attack them in general.

If I were you I would think twice about floating around the MRM outside of your blog and criticizing those men, or even defending yourself for minor grievances such as above... because it might greatly change the minds of those who have chosen to suck it up.

You wield an enormously more amount of power than someone who merely makes a comment on a blog somewhere on the internet. With power comes added responsibility - and it is not always the kind of responsiblity that comes with trying to shame and force others, who are potential allies, to your point of view.

11:08 AM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger Sad_Dad said...

Oh god! Being ignorant to Rob Fedders and J.Bowen, with Glenns arguments, I'm not going to pretend I know what's going on between you two, and to think I actually asked Rob Fedders to help out Glenns site because I thought he was so good with words and has an ability to get his point across very easily. If I may say that I really don't hate women I just look out for the ones that have the entitlement complex, those are the ones I hate but, I don't consider them women either I look at them as spoiled little girls. The little girls that use the system to get ahead at men's expense and blame us for everything. And because of this I am very mad and I believe that I have good reason too be. Not being able to see my children and not being taken seriously by anybody because I am a man and I am disposable to those little girls with the entitlment complex. Glenn has shown me nothing as to what you Rob Fedders and J. Bowen are talking about. And I will support everything that Glenn does to the best of my ability until I see what you two are talking about. Maybe I won't for a while because Glenn has been my only outlet since my divorce and the loss of my children for no good reason. I still have a lot of healing to do and it's been over 4 years now since I've been enslaved.

2:15 PM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger Rob Fedders said...

Sad Dad,

Nah, you know, like both J Bowen and I said, Glenn does far more good than bad - and notice that both of us said so.

But, there IS a fine line in the MRM, and that fine line exists between that which is palatable to the general public, and that which is the truth.

We are hampered greatly because we all live in one great big classroom that has no structure. So, you have guys kicking around who have been around for eons discussing things amidst people who are just becoming aware of the problems. The two, naturally, have entirely different views - and both are justified.

Almost all people who have been in the MRM for a while have eventually noticed that there are similar "phases" that people go through along with their length of time in the MRM. This is a massively complex problem that goes deep into psychology, biology, anthropology, culture, politics and beyond - the rabbit hole just keeps going and going and going.

So, what you get after a while, is a natural reaction in a good portion of men who will get sick of hearing the same "proof" of what is going on (like, being exposed to similar stories, showing similar actions and similar reactions, year after year), and many of these men will decide to focus their energies on discovering "why" these things keep happening and so on.

And this is where a natural conflict in the MRM comes into play - because the answers, such as the ones you thought I expressed well, did not come "easy", nor are they what most people wish to hear. And so, seeking the "truth" often discredits the mainstream guys... BUT, the mainstream guys desire to become MORE mainstream in order to effect some change in society means they often have a desire to silence men who are speaking the "un-PC" truth, because it works against the interests of the mainstream.

And so, you find many of us small peanuts, who also have dedicated enormous amounts of time to research and writing in order to bring forth the evidence and theories (often of highly credible people and the like), are naturally at odds with "the mainstream."

Further, there is no real "academia" for us to learn anything real about men's position biologically, socially, or anthropologically that has not been horribly skewered by feminist politics etc. etc. - meaning that the only real "progress" made in discovering things in regard to the plight of men, is made mainly by no-name mooks doing no-glory but much criticism work...

Hey, I have broken a few eggs and made some classic enemies along my journey too. Glenn is only as human as the rest of us.

The point being made is that when Glenn puts his highly visible name behind knee jerk condemnations of some views, he is actually discrediting some people who have been doing enormous amounts of equally valid work for the MRM - and it would be nice if it weren't always the little guys who have to bend like the willows for the big guys - because neither one of us will last without the other.

3:08 PM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger Sad_Dad said...

I agree 100% with what your saying and I myself do not like mainstream because I find nothing gets done, it's just the same old things going on and on and it feels like it will never stop. I guess I haven't been following up on news and what people are saying to your extent because I feel I can't take on much more because it's so depressing therefore limiting my knowledge of what's really go on with issues. My situation is causing a great deal of suffering and I see no light at the end of the tunnel. I do see progress in very small minute steps but, for the amount that I am suffering now it doesn't help at all. But I hope someday in my lifetime I see progress because I don't know how much longer I can keep up this pace without going to jail or worse. Sorry if I seem a little protective of Glenn's work it's just I had no help at all suffering alone and it was Glenn's site that opened my eye's and showed me I wasn't alone and that help me more than words can say. But I do understand where you are coming from, and I don't think anybody should be held back from telling the truth no matter what. People in my position do not have a voice and people that are in the position to help don't care and don't listens to us. It's the very same people that condemn me and others like me and hanging us out to dry, those very people have the best of everything good paying jobs, good bennys, they have the best house eat the best food drive the best cars that ignore us. And they get their wealth from us. Hypocrites ever single one of them. I don't dare voice my opinion on what I think of them and I doubt they care about that either as long as they keep their lives seperated from ours.

4:09 PM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger Helen said...

Hi all,

I am closing this thread. I cannot moderate blogger for individual posts so please respect my wishes as I do not want to moderate all posts as that would not be fair.

It seems that a few of these comments might make for better email or private conversations than stated on a public forum. I do want to add that most of us here are on the same page--we are advocates for men's rights and civil liberties. Please remember that.

4:18 PM, May 15, 2009  
Blogger TMink said...

Ladyhawke, would you erase that post? I do not think it is appropriate.



12:32 AM, May 16, 2009  
Blogger mark hays said...


Good job. No fluff here. This is more like it. It's pretty hard to go wrong with Glenn Sacks.

How about Stephen Baskerville next? I know he's as serious as a heart attack but he's the best expert of all.

10:00 PM, May 19, 2009  
Blogger 9988 said...


11:39 AM, May 24, 2009  
Blogger 9988 said...

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11:41 AM, May 24, 2009  
Blogger 9988 said...

H i . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

11:42 AM, May 24, 2009  

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